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I find this intriguing, but not comprehensible. Does there exist someone who could explain the significance of what Sir B-L is saying? If you are that person,

I find this intriguing, but not comprehensible. Does there exist someone who could explain the significance of what Sir B-L is saying? If you are that person, please do. As I understand the background: Adobe has been bungling around on some secret mailing list about Flash and HTML 5. Mark Pilgrim has made fun of them for wanting to keep what's public secret. Now, they are getting their come-uppance. Yes?

papercrane 17y ago
If I understand correctly he's updating the working groups charter so that its clear that canvas, microdata, and rdfa are in scope. This way any objections that these products were out of scope is no longer valid. I suppose the groups that were objecting can now use this as an excuse to pull out of the working group, claiming that they don't support the new charter.
bbatsell 17y ago
As I understand the situation: Adobe's representative to the WHATWG, Larry Masinter, filed a formal objection (FO) on a private WHATWG mailing list to the publication of the HTML5 standard because the standard, at present, includes extensions to HTML such as Canvas and RDFa that Masinter believes are beyond the scope of what HTML5 was supposed to entail, as outlined in the working group's charter. Since Canvas, in particular, would be very beneficial to those wishing to emulate Adobe Flash's capabilities using solely HTML5, ECMAScript, and CSS, some have interpreted Masinter's formal objection as an attempt by Adobe to prevent HTML5 from taking root in order to prevent competition to Adobe Flash. In this letter, Berners-Lee is saying that he believes that Canvas, RDFa, and microdata are legitimately part of the HTML5 spec, and even if the current charter does not explicitly allow for them, it should be amended to do so.
- fnid2 17y ago
  Thanks TBL. I knew we could count on you. Well, you know, Adobe is a company and they have their interests and they pay $60k a year to be a member of the w3c and have their voices heard and they did and the proper procedures were in place and now it's time to move forward with HTML5. Next thing is we'll see if they were correct on their prediction that it'll take a decade to move on to HTML6.
- sh1mmer 17y ago
  Some have interpreted that way, but it's quite cynical. I used to do a bunch of W3 standard. People I know on the inside _not_ from Adobe have told me that this was just a procedural question. This is probably the reason it was done on a private list, to avoid exciting this kind of speculation, which certain people in the WG decided to spark anyway by posting about "secret objections".
  - andybak 17y ago
    What do you think Hixie's view on Larry's actions were? He certainly sparked the controversy with his public reaction to Larry. Was it justified? Was he overreacting? Politicking? There's more to this story even if it's just people politics.
- othermaciej 17y ago
  You have the gist of it, but the organization in question is the W3C, not the WHATWG (which is a separate organization also working on HTML5).
snorkel 17y ago
(in caveman speak) MP: Grrrr. Spec is too big! Burn spec with fire make it smaller! TBL: Arrrr. Spec is too big. Break spec into pieces with club!! W3C: Uuugghhhh!!! Spec is good!

papercrane 17y ago

If I understand correctly he's updating the working groups charter so that its clear that canvas, microdata, and rdfa are in scope. This way any objections that these products were out of scope is no longer valid. I suppose the groups that were objecting can now use this as an excuse to pull out of the working group, claiming that they don't support the new charter.

bbatsell 17y ago

As I understand the situation: Adobe's representative to the WHATWG, Larry Masinter, filed a formal objection (FO) on a private WHATWG mailing list to the publication of the HTML5 standard because the standard, at present, includes extensions to HTML such as Canvas and RDFa that Masinter believes are beyond the scope of what HTML5 was supposed to entail, as outlined in the working group's charter. Since Canvas, in particular, would be very beneficial to those wishing to emulate Adobe Flash's capabilities using solely HTML5, ECMAScript, and CSS, some have interpreted Masinter's formal objection as an attempt by Adobe to prevent HTML5 from taking root in order to prevent competition to Adobe Flash. In this letter, Berners-Lee is saying that he believes that Canvas, RDFa, and microdata are legitimately part of the HTML5 spec, and even if the current charter does not explicitly allow for them, it should be amended to do so.

fnid2 17y ago
Thanks TBL. I knew we could count on you. Well, you know, Adobe is a company and they have their interests and they pay $60k a year to be a member of the w3c and have their voices heard and they did and the proper procedures were in place and now it's time to move forward with HTML5. Next thing is we'll see if they were correct on their prediction that it'll take a decade to move on to HTML6.
sh1mmer 17y ago
Some have interpreted that way, but it's quite cynical. I used to do a bunch of W3 standard. People I know on the inside _not_ from Adobe have told me that this was just a procedural question. This is probably the reason it was done on a private list, to avoid exciting this kind of speculation, which certain people in the WG decided to spark anyway by posting about "secret objections".
- andybak 17y ago
  What do you think Hixie's view on Larry's actions were? He certainly sparked the controversy with his public reaction to Larry. Was it justified? Was he overreacting? Politicking? There's more to this story even if it's just people politics.
othermaciej 17y ago
You have the gist of it, but the organization in question is the W3C, not the WHATWG (which is a separate organization also working on HTML5).

snorkel 17y ago

(in caveman speak) MP: Grrrr. Spec is too big! Burn spec with fire make it smaller! TBL: Arrrr. Spec is too big. Break spec into pieces with club!! W3C: Uuugghhhh!!! Spec is good!