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The argument that we have to take people who are unfamiliar with the work and look at how they approach it is alienating me. Would you design mathematical notat
by Kenji 11y ago
The argument that we have to take people who are unfamiliar with the work and look at how they approach it is alienating me. Would you design mathematical notations based on the opinion of 5th graders? Would you build a skyscraper based on how 5th graders feel about it because it's more natural?
EDIT: For those who didn't read the article, I say 5th grader here because a large part of the study is actually about them. Not because I arrogantly compare people from other fields to children.
- neosat 11y ago"Would you design mathematical notations based on the opinion of 5th graders?" Haven't read the entire paper but...learning from something doesn't mean you need to design something 'based' on that. The advantage of studying how people unfamiliar with a specific way to solve problems will solve that problem is actually a great technique to try to understand common patterns and approaches humans think about problem solving. Some pattern solving strategies will be more successful than others and it is worth understanding what is common to those (especially when compared to the unsuccessful ones) Identifying patterns in the way people solve these problems can prove to be great design insights that go into the design of problem-solving solutions for those problems.
- crispyambulance 11y agoThe thing about programming is that you're typically doing it FOR someone other than yourself. In other words, the programmer is the "middleman" between some domain and the computer. The idea is ultimately to get rid of the middleman. It is a mistake and somewhat arrogant to view your domain experts as "5th graders".
- pcunite 11y agoYes and no. If we need outsiders it means we have become too arrogant ourselves. Need a fresh take.
- c3534l 11y agoI don't see why that shouldn't be taken into account. Coming up with notation that is intuitive is an important part of the design process and like the article said, this is meant to see if you can't use children as a way of measuring intuition quantitatively.
- saint_fiasco 11y agoSure. That's what we did with numerical notation. We switched to a positional decimal system that even fifth graders can understand and do operations with.
- vidarh 11y agoYes, except where what the 5th graders come up with fails to meet other important criteria. A lot of notation is the way it is because of history and inertia, rather than because practical considerations or requirements means it needs to be that way. If there are changes we can make to make languages more approachable without making them worse in other ways, it makes sense to opt for making them more approachable.
- wrp 11y ago> A lot of notation is the way it is because of history and inertia... Less than you may think. Leibniz and other mathematicians spent years debating notational forms in mathematics before settling on what we have. See Florian Cajori's _A History of Mathematical Notations_.
- vidarh 11y agoSo history and inertia by now, in other words. The point is not that people didn't think about them when they first came up with them, but that they are not generally regularly revised based on e.g. practical teaching experience or research.
- renox 11y agoFalse: even our languages are full of quirks and take much more time to learn than Esperanto for example.
- masterzora 11y ago> Would you design mathematical notations based on the opinion of 5th graders? It's not their opinions. It's about how they naturally think. And, yes, if I could change mathematical notation in a manner that made it easier to learn without introducing a more significant disadvantage, I would do it in a heartbeat. Things are the way they are for a reason but that reason isn't necessarily that the way things are is the best.