5 ms·

"Absolute universalism, in which we feel compassion for every individual on Earth, is psychologically impossible." The author has obviously never read science

"Absolute universalism, in which we feel compassion for every individual on Earth, is psychologically impossible." The author has obviously never read science fiction. A non-human out-group instantly allows all humans to be in one in-group.

caseysoftware 11y ago
Good call. Stan Lee has said he created the X-Men (and others) in part to tell a story about racism without talking about race. Instead of it being skin color, it was the (often invisible) genetic aspects that people used to define the in/out-groups. The Watchmen, Ender's Game, and Starship Troopers all work for this one too. Ender's Game also showed what happens - blame and recriminations - after the external threat is removed.. people go back to their old struggles, fights, etc.
- awinter-py 11y ago
  ender's game is a photocopy of the haldemann book 'forever war'. EG is maybe better-liked by kids but it gets war wrong. Haldemann wrote forever war after coming back from vietnam.
  - PhasmaFelis 11y ago
    > ender's game is a photocopy of the haldemann book 'forever war'. No, it really isn't. Certainly they deal with many of the same themes, and if you want to say that Haldemann does a much better job then I can probably agree with that, but accusing Ender's Game of being a mere rip-off just because they address similar topics is silly.
    - awinter-py 11y ago
      similar topics, at similar settings, in similar order. especially if you remember that speaker for the dead was written first; OSC created EG as a prequel, liked it better, and published first. Speaker for the dead probably comes from card's life experience being a mormon missionary (hint: the piggies are the brown people he went to convert). Ender's Game comes from his life experience reading haldemann. (OSC is also a weird and outspoken homophobe; easy to see him (a) misunderstanding forever war and (b) liking it for the wrong reasons). Look, card is clearly the better writer between the two of them. He added a lot. But if you want to put forward war fiction as a case for empathy, it's irresponsible to look at EG before FW.
      - dwc 11y ago
        IIRC, Card wrote Ender's Game in high school and later dusted it off, fixed it up, and published it.
        awinter-py 11y ago
        This isn't the kind of thing wikipedia is typically good at but that's the source for my factoid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender's_Game#Creation_and_inspiration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender's_Game#Creation_and_insp... > Ender's Game was written specifically to establish the character of Ender for his role of the Speaker in Speaker for the Dead, the outline for which he had written before novelizing Ender's Game.
      - PhasmaFelis 11y ago
        You can certainly say that Ender's Game makes a poor case for empathy, and you can make a case that it was inspired by The Forever War. But that's very different from saying it's a "photocopy".
  - tomjen3 11y ago
    Forever war goes a lot less into the psychology of the individual and more into the societal psychology, but only barely because it takes place over such a huge timescale. The continuation of enders war do go into much more societal factors.
hosh 11y ago
The author has obviously never practiced meditation, let alone some of the more obscure practices.
ljw1001 11y ago
You don't actually need science fiction to find a non-human out-group. There are plenty of real species around. :)
- bpchaps 11y ago
  Or even closer to home, just look at those with mental health issues.
- tomjen3 11y ago
  Yeah, but not one of them would be able to put up a fight if we ever really wanted to kill it. We could murder every tiger inside a week if we really wanted to.
simula67 11y ago
Be careful about drawing inferences about the real world from fiction. In this particular case though there is some evidence that you may be right : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realistic_conflict_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realistic_conflict_theory.
- negamax 11y ago
  Fiction is not detached from reality. Authors who write fiction base it on their experiences, studies, believes. Grounded in, taken from and influenced by bigger forces of religion, social decorums, culture. Amplified to an unrealistic dimension. Lots of advances in science and push towards technology can be attributed to fiction that recent generations have consumed. So although fiction cannot be authoritative, I am uncertain that it would be wrong to draw inferences from it
raverbashing 11y ago
Yes, but think of this as "data compression", your worries are limited People will unite for a common goal until this common goal is removed, and don't count on removing all bickering. Also see below answers, LoTR also touches on the subject with the FoTR and conflicts between races even when united on a common goal.
studentrob 11y ago
I'm not sure anyone can say they truly empathize with anything. When you put yourself first, you immediately are not fully empathizing with everything. Rather, I'd say I have a healthy respect for all living beings. I can smack a mosquito and respect it was doing what it needed to survive, while also putting myself first in my desire to not catch dengue fever. Life and death are natural. Empathy may not be complete unless you're willing to sacrifice yourself. Respect may or may not be limited to humans.

caseysoftware 11y ago

Good call. Stan Lee has said he created the X-Men (and others) in part to tell a story about racism without talking about race. Instead of it being skin color, it was the (often invisible) genetic aspects that people used to define the in/out-groups. The Watchmen, Ender's Game, and Starship Troopers all work for this one too. Ender's Game also showed what happens - blame and recriminations - after the external threat is removed.. people go back to their old struggles, fights, etc.

awinter-py 11y ago
ender's game is a photocopy of the haldemann book 'forever war'. EG is maybe better-liked by kids but it gets war wrong. Haldemann wrote forever war after coming back from vietnam.
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago
  > ender's game is a photocopy of the haldemann book 'forever war'. No, it really isn't. Certainly they deal with many of the same themes, and if you want to say that Haldemann does a much better job then I can probably agree with that, but accusing Ender's Game of being a mere rip-off just because they address similar topics is silly.
  - awinter-py 11y ago
    similar topics, at similar settings, in similar order. especially if you remember that speaker for the dead was written first; OSC created EG as a prequel, liked it better, and published first. Speaker for the dead probably comes from card's life experience being a mormon missionary (hint: the piggies are the brown people he went to convert). Ender's Game comes from his life experience reading haldemann. (OSC is also a weird and outspoken homophobe; easy to see him (a) misunderstanding forever war and (b) liking it for the wrong reasons). Look, card is clearly the better writer between the two of them. He added a lot. But if you want to put forward war fiction as a case for empathy, it's irresponsible to look at EG before FW.
    - dwc 11y ago
      IIRC, Card wrote Ender's Game in high school and later dusted it off, fixed it up, and published it.
      - awinter-py 11y ago
        This isn't the kind of thing wikipedia is typically good at but that's the source for my factoid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender's_Game#Creation_and_inspiration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender's_Game#Creation_and_insp... > Ender's Game was written specifically to establish the character of Ender for his role of the Speaker in Speaker for the Dead, the outline for which he had written before novelizing Ender's Game.
    - PhasmaFelis 11y ago
      You can certainly say that Ender's Game makes a poor case for empathy, and you can make a case that it was inspired by The Forever War. But that's very different from saying it's a "photocopy".
- tomjen3 11y ago
  Forever war goes a lot less into the psychology of the individual and more into the societal psychology, but only barely because it takes place over such a huge timescale. The continuation of enders war do go into much more societal factors.

hosh 11y ago

The author has obviously never practiced meditation, let alone some of the more obscure practices.

ljw1001 11y ago

You don't actually need science fiction to find a non-human out-group. There are plenty of real species around. :)

bpchaps 11y ago
Or even closer to home, just look at those with mental health issues.
tomjen3 11y ago
Yeah, but not one of them would be able to put up a fight if we ever really wanted to kill it. We could murder every tiger inside a week if we really wanted to.

simula67 11y ago

Be careful about drawing inferences about the real world from fiction. In this particular case though there is some evidence that you may be right : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realistic_conflict_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realistic_conflict_theory.

negamax 11y ago
Fiction is not detached from reality. Authors who write fiction base it on their experiences, studies, believes. Grounded in, taken from and influenced by bigger forces of religion, social decorums, culture. Amplified to an unrealistic dimension. Lots of advances in science and push towards technology can be attributed to fiction that recent generations have consumed. So although fiction cannot be authoritative, I am uncertain that it would be wrong to draw inferences from it

raverbashing 11y ago

Yes, but think of this as "data compression", your worries are limited People will unite for a common goal until this common goal is removed, and don't count on removing all bickering. Also see below answers, LoTR also touches on the subject with the FoTR and conflicts between races even when united on a common goal.

studentrob 11y ago

I'm not sure anyone can say they truly empathize with anything. When you put yourself first, you immediately are not fully empathizing with everything. Rather, I'd say I have a healthy respect for all living beings. I can smack a mosquito and respect it was doing what it needed to survive, while also putting myself first in my desire to not catch dengue fever. Life and death are natural. Empathy may not be complete unless you're willing to sacrifice yourself. Respect may or may not be limited to humans.