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No, the severe depression came from childhood trauma and abuse. Acting like a child all the time, however, when you're a grown adult and never doing anything re

No, the severe depression came from childhood trauma and abuse. Acting like a child all the time, however, when you're a grown adult and never doing anything responsible is entitlement.

kafkaesq 10y ago
Your language is weird, though. And keeps coming back to associating you wife's "never being happy about anything" and "sleeping all day" to being childish and/or acting from a sense of entitlement.
- morbidhawk 10y ago
  Being a victim is different than playing the victim card. It's hard for a victim to get out of bed and do things but isn't impossible. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether she has legitimate reasons or not and other times its clear as day she's taking advantage. One thing I like about the red pill and also happens to coincide with stoic philosophy is that you call things what they are rather than what society tells you they are
  - mercer 10y ago
    (Please don't think I'm extrapolating all this from your comment, or applying it to you specifically. Your comment was mostly just a writing prompt of sorts.) I think your comment nicely expresses the core problem I see in the red pill 'movement', and in a whole bunch of other movements (and moreso on the internet). These 'types' of groups oversimplify or warp an aspect of reality primarily because of negative personal issues or experiences. And while that in itself is not necessarily a problem, in these particular cases it often causes real damage to real, complex people who are usually not responsible for these personal or past issues. It also 'traps' the individuals in a way of thinking that, collective, is probably much more powerful and extreme than the individual themself. The thing is, I can actually agree with 'red pillers' to a degree. I've had some really, really bad experiences with 'damaged' girls who took advantage of me, and something like the red pill could've probably helped me before and after these experiences. My life has improved when I became more assertive. But at the same I try to avoid codifying this experience or lesson into a (personal) philosophy or into a movement I interact with regularly. I try to keep the experiences and the resulting lessons small, because I've found that generalizing from negative experiences and basing world views on them can have terrible consequences. In fact, I believe it's the root of a large number of our problems. Unfortunately, the worse the experience, the more likely we are to draw lessons that are too out of proportion to these experiences. It's understandable, but dangerous. Doing this is particularly difficult for me because I'm the type of person who likes to generalize and systemize things. I have to actively and constantly remind myself that life and people are messy, chaotic things and not a pattern to be recognized and generalized (too much, or too early, anyways). Even if I'm good at it. I'm a big fan of stoicism and have become huge fan of all things zen. I see the same dangers there. There's a sharp divide between those who fled into the 'mindfulness' world because of trauma and/or burnout, and those who took it up for other reasons. The former group is often quite unpleasant and deeply unsettling to me, and has in fact played a big role in keeping me from 'discovering' meditation and whatnot. I've noticed the same with certain groups of Christians, cleaned-up drug addicts, atheists, and so on. The main difference is that in most of these movements there's a healthy mix of different people who came to be part of it for different reason. On the internet, it's not only easier to form and become part of such groups, but I wouldn't be surprised if it also attracts a disproportionate number of 'systemizing' people like myself ('spectrummy', for one).
    - morbidhawk 10y ago
      I agree with what you're saying. Generalized advice doesn't work with everyone and with every situation since people are different. You've got to take what does apply and leave the rest. I'm going to therapy now too and my therapist does help me to not to take the assertiveness too far but at the same time she admits that she's shocked to see me go through such vast improvements in such a short amount of time. I'm surprised too, once I stopped caring so much about the relationship and I actually tried to end it after my wife got physically abusive again, my wife is now getting her act more together and realizes that domestic violence is an immediate relationship-ender for me now.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

No, the severe depression came from childhood trauma and abuse. Acting like a child all the time, however, when you're a grown adult and never doing anything responsible is entitlement.

kafkaesq 10y ago

Your language is weird, though. And keeps coming back to associating you wife's "never being happy about anything" and "sleeping all day" to being childish and/or acting from a sense of entitlement.

morbidhawk 10y ago
Being a victim is different than playing the victim card. It's hard for a victim to get out of bed and do things but isn't impossible. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether she has legitimate reasons or not and other times its clear as day she's taking advantage. One thing I like about the red pill and also happens to coincide with stoic philosophy is that you call things what they are rather than what society tells you they are
- mercer 10y ago
  (Please don't think I'm extrapolating all this from your comment, or applying it to you specifically. Your comment was mostly just a writing prompt of sorts.) I think your comment nicely expresses the core problem I see in the red pill 'movement', and in a whole bunch of other movements (and moreso on the internet). These 'types' of groups oversimplify or warp an aspect of reality primarily because of negative personal issues or experiences. And while that in itself is not necessarily a problem, in these particular cases it often causes real damage to real, complex people who are usually not responsible for these personal or past issues. It also 'traps' the individuals in a way of thinking that, collective, is probably much more powerful and extreme than the individual themself. The thing is, I can actually agree with 'red pillers' to a degree. I've had some really, really bad experiences with 'damaged' girls who took advantage of me, and something like the red pill could've probably helped me before and after these experiences. My life has improved when I became more assertive. But at the same I try to avoid codifying this experience or lesson into a (personal) philosophy or into a movement I interact with regularly. I try to keep the experiences and the resulting lessons small, because I've found that generalizing from negative experiences and basing world views on them can have terrible consequences. In fact, I believe it's the root of a large number of our problems. Unfortunately, the worse the experience, the more likely we are to draw lessons that are too out of proportion to these experiences. It's understandable, but dangerous. Doing this is particularly difficult for me because I'm the type of person who likes to generalize and systemize things. I have to actively and constantly remind myself that life and people are messy, chaotic things and not a pattern to be recognized and generalized (too much, or too early, anyways). Even if I'm good at it. I'm a big fan of stoicism and have become huge fan of all things zen. I see the same dangers there. There's a sharp divide between those who fled into the 'mindfulness' world because of trauma and/or burnout, and those who took it up for other reasons. The former group is often quite unpleasant and deeply unsettling to me, and has in fact played a big role in keeping me from 'discovering' meditation and whatnot. I've noticed the same with certain groups of Christians, cleaned-up drug addicts, atheists, and so on. The main difference is that in most of these movements there's a healthy mix of different people who came to be part of it for different reason. On the internet, it's not only easier to form and become part of such groups, but I wouldn't be surprised if it also attracts a disproportionate number of 'systemizing' people like myself ('spectrummy', for one).
  - morbidhawk 10y ago
    I agree with what you're saying. Generalized advice doesn't work with everyone and with every situation since people are different. You've got to take what does apply and leave the rest. I'm going to therapy now too and my therapist does help me to not to take the assertiveness too far but at the same time she admits that she's shocked to see me go through such vast improvements in such a short amount of time. I'm surprised too, once I stopped caring so much about the relationship and I actually tried to end it after my wife got physically abusive again, my wife is now getting her act more together and realizes that domestic violence is an immediate relationship-ender for me now.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]