5 ms·

>It costs £15/$21 for a single t-bone, but man is it worth it. I've had plenty of local meat, and I'm in a rural setting known for its farming. I'm skeptical.

>It costs £15/$21 for a single t-bone, but man is it worth it. I've had plenty of local meat, and I'm in a rural setting known for its farming. I'm skeptical. I'd love to see this actually tested, because I think this is an alternate view of the article; the "hipster" crowd is so keen on getting locally sourced food because it just tastes oh-so-much better (and they're more than happy to tell you). Half the time they're not even eating locally sourced food. The global food supply chain is pretty amazing. Why do we assume that Joe Schmoe farmer down the road is automatically "better" at food production? Outside of the fact that some produce can lose nutrition in transport, I'd bet 90% of people couldn't tell the difference between garden fresh or grown-in-China...or that if they identified a difference they'd necessarily choose the former as a preference. Taste (in the literal sense) is a funny thing.

bronson 11y ago
You're asking why Joe Schmoe's cows from a local field taste better than those of a factory feedlot standing shoulder-to-shoulder in their own muck?
- forgetsusername 11y ago
  >You're asking why Joe Schmoe's cows from a local field taste better than those of a factory feedlot standing shoulder-to-shoulder in their own muck? I'm not really asking. Where do you live, might I ask? I'm looking out my window at Joe Schmoe's local field with the cows standing shoulder to shoulder in their own muck. Do you think all "non-local" meat is from a factory feedlot? That's a strawman. Do you have any evidence, or just like the idea of Joe Schmoe's meat tasting better?
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
iam-TJ 11y ago
'global food supply chain' is off-shoring; think of it in the same way as the mis-use of H1B visas and transferring I.T. work to low-wage economies, leaving 'local' I.T. workers out of a job. Much of the unstated benefit of locally produced food is in a shorter time between harvest and plate (fresher), less handling (bruising), less transportation (ecological), less packaging (resources + cost), shorter supply chain (less middlemen; farmer/producer should receive higher % of retail price), generally more pride and care involved (better quality) plus of course supporting the 'local' economy by keeping the money circulating locally and local smaller family farms in business. For animals it should mean quicker time-to-kill (less stress) due to less travel and coral-ling at abattoirs, and, depending on the butcher, better cuts of meat (less mechanical cutting) due to following the grain. In the U.K. the biggest immediate benefit is the farmer receiving a greater slice of the retail price, which is essential in some sectors (such as dairy) where many farmers receive less than the cost of production, and certainly not enough to protect against poor years. Combined with low investment returns pushing capital into land 'investment' which is driving land price growth to ridiculous levels; subsequently driving rents for farmers who don't own their own land to bankruptcy levels (we recently sold 10 acres @ £10,000/acre which was bought for around £2,500/acre 15 years ago [0], but the gross yield hasn't moved from around £400/acre). Even amongst farmer land-owners many are selling off small parcels in order to cover shortfalls in farming income or to invest in new facilities and equipment. The big farming agri-businesses (10,000+ acres) are about the only ones that have the production scale to make profits and invest in land. Born-n-bred and still living on a 1,000 acre farm, but hacking code. [0] http://pdf.savills.com/documents/Savills-ALMS-Feb-2014.pdf http://pdf.savills.com/documents/Savills-ALMS-Feb-2014.pdf
- forgetsusername 11y ago
  >leaving 'local' I.T. workers out of a job. Well, I'm not really sure that the local guy deserves a job any more than the guy in India does. I do agree with your post, generally, though I remain skeptical about certain things, like "more pride and care", for example. Remember, this argument is about "buy local", as in radius. It isn't about factory vs small-farm. As a Canadian, I can buy Alberta beef in my grocery store. When I'm in Alberta, that's top quality local. When I'm elsewhere, it's suddenly...bad?
  - iam-TJ 11y ago
    I'm not arguing factory vs small-farm; the system processes imposed by factory methods can maintain consistency of production even given lower-skilled, lower-waged, less personally invested, employees. Generally though family farms are more personally invested in the quality of their produce (and treatment and health of their animals) especially if it is being sold direct locally rather than into some anonymous wholesale system. For example, when selling locally, we'd hand-pick the best produce whereas the bulk production would be loaded into 30 tonne bulk trailers and sent off to some factory for additional processing. In the U.K. there has been a resurgence of farm-outlets and farmers markets to help local producers reach local customers directly. People tend to remember details of locally produced products due to its local association and so a bad experience is more likely to cause a direct negative impact on sales the producer understands. A related benefit of local farmer-direct outlets I overlooked is that there is often much less wastage (more variation in the size and shape of the produce, which reflects what nature provides). Most bulk wholesale product has to meet minimum and maximum sizes so large percentages of produce (10%+) can be discarded and dumped [1] especially in poor growing years, or because it is the wrong shape [2]. Thankfully there's been recent public, media, and political pressure on the wholesale buyers to reduce this but it is still a significant problem. Another benefit (for producers) is direct local supply is less susceptible to large wholesale buyers arbitrarily forcing the farm-gate price lower in order to maintain the wholesale pipeline profit margin without regard for the needs of the farmer. If other industries were as efficient and productive as farms have been over the last 50 years we'd be in a very different world. For example, in the 1970s we had 8 full-time workers and over harvest we'd have another 15 or so (mostly women or students). In 2016 we have 1 full-time and 1 'apprentice' (who is paid about 1/3 of the national minimum wage!) all year round. So now we're less connected to the local economy and community due to the price pressure. In the 1970s we were banking enough profit in the good years to carry us through the poor years and still maintain investment in equipment and buildings. Now its a constant battle of attrition to maintain the status-quo. It never ceases to amaze me that people are willing to pay out ridiculous sums for luxuries like 'smart' phones, TVs, vacations, etc., and yet begrudge paying a reasonable price for a life-supporting essential - especially when it is freshly harvested (as opposed to processed) food. [1] "Food waste reduction could help feed world's starving" http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28092034 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28092034 [2] "Wonky fruit and veg" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8587496.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8587496.stm

bronson 11y ago

You're asking why Joe Schmoe's cows from a local field taste better than those of a factory feedlot standing shoulder-to-shoulder in their own muck?

forgetsusername 11y ago
>You're asking why Joe Schmoe's cows from a local field taste better than those of a factory feedlot standing shoulder-to-shoulder in their own muck? I'm not really asking. Where do you live, might I ask? I'm looking out my window at Joe Schmoe's local field with the cows standing shoulder to shoulder in their own muck. Do you think all "non-local" meat is from a factory feedlot? That's a strawman. Do you have any evidence, or just like the idea of Joe Schmoe's meat tasting better?

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

iam-TJ 11y ago

'global food supply chain' is off-shoring; think of it in the same way as the mis-use of H1B visas and transferring I.T. work to low-wage economies, leaving 'local' I.T. workers out of a job. Much of the unstated benefit of locally produced food is in a shorter time between harvest and plate (fresher), less handling (bruising), less transportation (ecological), less packaging (resources + cost), shorter supply chain (less middlemen; farmer/producer should receive higher % of retail price), generally more pride and care involved (better quality) plus of course supporting the 'local' economy by keeping the money circulating locally and local smaller family farms in business. For animals it should mean quicker time-to-kill (less stress) due to less travel and coral-ling at abattoirs, and, depending on the butcher, better cuts of meat (less mechanical cutting) due to following the grain. In the U.K. the biggest immediate benefit is the farmer receiving a greater slice of the retail price, which is essential in some sectors (such as dairy) where many farmers receive less than the cost of production, and certainly not enough to protect against poor years. Combined with low investment returns pushing capital into land 'investment' which is driving land price growth to ridiculous levels; subsequently driving rents for farmers who don't own their own land to bankruptcy levels (we recently sold 10 acres @ £10,000/acre which was bought for around £2,500/acre 15 years ago [0], but the gross yield hasn't moved from around £400/acre). Even amongst farmer land-owners many are selling off small parcels in order to cover shortfalls in farming income or to invest in new facilities and equipment. The big farming agri-businesses (10,000+ acres) are about the only ones that have the production scale to make profits and invest in land. Born-n-bred and still living on a 1,000 acre farm, but hacking code. [0] http://pdf.savills.com/documents/Savills-ALMS-Feb-2014.pdf http://pdf.savills.com/documents/Savills-ALMS-Feb-2014.pdf

forgetsusername 11y ago
>leaving 'local' I.T. workers out of a job. Well, I'm not really sure that the local guy deserves a job any more than the guy in India does. I do agree with your post, generally, though I remain skeptical about certain things, like "more pride and care", for example. Remember, this argument is about "buy local", as in radius. It isn't about factory vs small-farm. As a Canadian, I can buy Alberta beef in my grocery store. When I'm in Alberta, that's top quality local. When I'm elsewhere, it's suddenly...bad?
- iam-TJ 11y ago
  I'm not arguing factory vs small-farm; the system processes imposed by factory methods can maintain consistency of production even given lower-skilled, lower-waged, less personally invested, employees. Generally though family farms are more personally invested in the quality of their produce (and treatment and health of their animals) especially if it is being sold direct locally rather than into some anonymous wholesale system. For example, when selling locally, we'd hand-pick the best produce whereas the bulk production would be loaded into 30 tonne bulk trailers and sent off to some factory for additional processing. In the U.K. there has been a resurgence of farm-outlets and farmers markets to help local producers reach local customers directly. People tend to remember details of locally produced products due to its local association and so a bad experience is more likely to cause a direct negative impact on sales the producer understands. A related benefit of local farmer-direct outlets I overlooked is that there is often much less wastage (more variation in the size and shape of the produce, which reflects what nature provides). Most bulk wholesale product has to meet minimum and maximum sizes so large percentages of produce (10%+) can be discarded and dumped [1] especially in poor growing years, or because it is the wrong shape [2]. Thankfully there's been recent public, media, and political pressure on the wholesale buyers to reduce this but it is still a significant problem. Another benefit (for producers) is direct local supply is less susceptible to large wholesale buyers arbitrarily forcing the farm-gate price lower in order to maintain the wholesale pipeline profit margin without regard for the needs of the farmer. If other industries were as efficient and productive as farms have been over the last 50 years we'd be in a very different world. For example, in the 1970s we had 8 full-time workers and over harvest we'd have another 15 or so (mostly women or students). In 2016 we have 1 full-time and 1 'apprentice' (who is paid about 1/3 of the national minimum wage!) all year round. So now we're less connected to the local economy and community due to the price pressure. In the 1970s we were banking enough profit in the good years to carry us through the poor years and still maintain investment in equipment and buildings. Now its a constant battle of attrition to maintain the status-quo. It never ceases to amaze me that people are willing to pay out ridiculous sums for luxuries like 'smart' phones, TVs, vacations, etc., and yet begrudge paying a reasonable price for a life-supporting essential - especially when it is freshly harvested (as opposed to processed) food. [1] "Food waste reduction could help feed world's starving" http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28092034 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28092034 [2] "Wonky fruit and veg" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8587496.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8587496.stm