3 ms·

> If you're that out-of-step with the people around you, you'd be better off just moving, instead of trying to force everyone around you to adopt your mindset

by objclxt 10y ago

> If you're that out-of-step with the people around you, you'd be better off just moving, instead of trying to force everyone around you to adopt your mindset That's some real victim blaming there. By your logic, if I'm being sexually harassed by my employer I should just change jobs. I shouldn't complain, or try to enact any real, meaningful change and stay in my current job - no, I should voluntarily leave due to their illegal behavior. I hope you're not a manager or CEO, because frankly your solution to an employee coming to you complaining about discrimination seems to be to just tell them to get another job. > Minorities don't have a right to force their views on the majority, though they do have a right to basic civil rights That depends on their views. If your view is backed by the law, then yes, you do have the right to force your view on the majority. I think you have confused the fact the views of many minorities are basic civil rights, like the right to not be discriminated against. Someone who is trans probably believes they should be treated the same as somebody who is cis. Given that view is enshrined in law, I'm pretty sure they have a right to enforce it on the majority. > But there's only so much change that's feasible: attitudes take generations to change, since you usually have to wait for the people with the wrong attitudes to literally die out. Except with your plan, everyone experiencing discrimination has moved away, so these attitudes never die out because there's nobody to correct the behavior in the first place. > I would, however, support a tax credit (not deduction) for anyone moving because of redrawn state borders ...which would effectively mean the government is subsidizing discrimination. You are bribing minorities to move out of areas discriminating against them, at great cost to them (finding a new job, a new place to live, etc) and at zero cost to those who wanted them out in the first place.

logfromblammo 10y ago
As the employee experiencing the illegal/unethical behavior, you actually would be better off just changing jobs, if you don't have a union or government agency to back you up every moment of the remainder of your career with that company. It isn't fair, but that's the way it is. If the 800-pound gorilla steals your peanut, you don't fight him for it. You just go find yourself another peanut and eat it more quickly. Evasion favors the weaker party more than a toe-to-toe, blow-for-blow battle. It's very difficult to be the minority, no matter where you are, unless you have a synthetic tribe to back you up. You don't have to run away, per se, but you do need to go to ground with your people whenever it becomes necessary. If you don't have enough friends, or the friends you have don't have enough power, you basically have to back down on everything, right or wrong. That's the way the real world works. You can live in the world that is, and you can dream about the world that you want, but it is unwise to confuse the two.
- JoBrad 10y ago
  Depending on what the peanut is, it's probably not good for anyone (including the population at large) for it to be that way. That's why our laws and judicial system should protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
  - logfromblammo 10y ago
    They do protect a very specific minority. It's somewhat inaccurately referred to as "the 1%".
Grishnakh 10y ago
There's only so much social change you can push within a certain timeframe. In case you haven't noticed, there's a huge backlash now against many of the changes you're talking about, especially the whole trans/cis thing. And worse, this is threatening to cause the whole country to turn back to ultra-conservative politics: Ted Cruz is likely to become President, and Republicans have already been sweeping state-level elections. The view that you say is "enshrined in law" is not guaranteed to stay that way, in fact it could very well be overturned soon. By your logic, people who like marijuana shouldn't move to MJ-friendly states like CO or WA, they should stay where they are and get arrested. Meanwhile, CO and WA are the ones that have actually led the movement to legalize it nationwide by doing it themselves, by thumbing their noses at the federal government, and then proving that not only does it not cause massive crime (since MJ was banned based on the assertion that it causes black men to rape white women), but it also brings in huge tax revenues and massively benefits the economy of the state. Now other states are trying to copy them. According to the logic of federalists like you, these states should never have defied the federal government. As for changing jobs due to sexual harassment, there's only so much you can do even though it is (rightfully) illegal. If you do get them in trouble for illegal behavior, and then you continue to stay in this job with a sexually harassing manager, exactly how nice of a work environment do you think it's going to be? You don't think they're going to do everything they can to make you miserable? Why kind of masochist would stick around in a place like that? >I shouldn't complain, or try to enact any real, meaningful change and stay in my current job Your problem here is that you seem to think that you can actually change peoples' thinking. You can't. You can only punish their bad behavior when it goes over the line. They're still going to hate you and make your life miserable in ways that aren't quite illegal, or can't be proved. >I hope you're not a manager or CEO, because frankly your solution to an employee coming to you complaining about discrimination seems to be to just tell them to get another job. This makes no sense: you're talking about a case where you're being sexually harassed by your employer (your words), not by a coworker. If I'm your manager and I'm sexually harassing you, how much good do you think it'll do for you to come to me and complain about it? It's simple: if you're being harassed by your employer or someone your employer condones, then you gather evidence and file suit, while finding a new job. Expecting evil people to change is silly. However, if it's just some low-level coworker, then still gather your evidence, but if management seems amenable, present it to them because they'll probably investigate and terminate the asshole.

by objclxt 10y ago

logfromblammo 10y ago

As the employee experiencing the illegal/unethical behavior, you actually would be better off just changing jobs, if you don't have a union or government agency to back you up every moment of the remainder of your career with that company. It isn't fair, but that's the way it is. If the 800-pound gorilla steals your peanut, you don't fight him for it. You just go find yourself another peanut and eat it more quickly. Evasion favors the weaker party more than a toe-to-toe, blow-for-blow battle. It's very difficult to be the minority, no matter where you are, unless you have a synthetic tribe to back you up. You don't have to run away, per se, but you do need to go to ground with your people whenever it becomes necessary. If you don't have enough friends, or the friends you have don't have enough power, you basically have to back down on everything, right or wrong. That's the way the real world works. You can live in the world that is, and you can dream about the world that you want, but it is unwise to confuse the two.

JoBrad 10y ago
Depending on what the peanut is, it's probably not good for anyone (including the population at large) for it to be that way. That's why our laws and judicial system should protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  They do protect a very specific minority. It's somewhat inaccurately referred to as "the 1%".

Grishnakh 10y ago

There's only so much social change you can push within a certain timeframe. In case you haven't noticed, there's a huge backlash now against many of the changes you're talking about, especially the whole trans/cis thing. And worse, this is threatening to cause the whole country to turn back to ultra-conservative politics: Ted Cruz is likely to become President, and Republicans have already been sweeping state-level elections. The view that you say is "enshrined in law" is not guaranteed to stay that way, in fact it could very well be overturned soon. By your logic, people who like marijuana shouldn't move to MJ-friendly states like CO or WA, they should stay where they are and get arrested. Meanwhile, CO and WA are the ones that have actually led the movement to legalize it nationwide by doing it themselves, by thumbing their noses at the federal government, and then proving that not only does it not cause massive crime (since MJ was banned based on the assertion that it causes black men to rape white women), but it also brings in huge tax revenues and massively benefits the economy of the state. Now other states are trying to copy them. According to the logic of federalists like you, these states should never have defied the federal government. As for changing jobs due to sexual harassment, there's only so much you can do even though it is (rightfully) illegal. If you do get them in trouble for illegal behavior, and then you continue to stay in this job with a sexually harassing manager, exactly how nice of a work environment do you think it's going to be? You don't think they're going to do everything they can to make you miserable? Why kind of masochist would stick around in a place like that? >I shouldn't complain, or try to enact any real, meaningful change and stay in my current job Your problem here is that you seem to think that you can actually change peoples' thinking. You can't. You can only punish their bad behavior when it goes over the line. They're still going to hate you and make your life miserable in ways that aren't quite illegal, or can't be proved. >I hope you're not a manager or CEO, because frankly your solution to an employee coming to you complaining about discrimination seems to be to just tell them to get another job. This makes no sense: you're talking about a case where you're being sexually harassed by your employer (your words), not by a coworker. If I'm your manager and I'm sexually harassing you, how much good do you think it'll do for you to come to me and complain about it? It's simple: if you're being harassed by your employer or someone your employer condones, then you gather evidence and file suit, while finding a new job. Expecting evil people to change is silly. However, if it's just some low-level coworker, then still gather your evidence, but if management seems amenable, present it to them because they'll probably investigate and terminate the asshole.