4 ms·

What fraction of income do the top 1% of earners actually earn?

maxmcd 11y ago
Looks like in 2013 the top 1% earned 21% and paid 41% of California's taxes. https://www.ftb.ca.gov/aboutFTB/Tax_Statistics/Reports/2013/Personal_Income_Tax/B-3.pdf https://www.ftb.ca.gov/aboutFTB/Tax_Statistics/Reports/2013/...
deleted 11y ago
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hammock 11y ago
According to the data in the article, $281b out of $1,104b, or 25%.
- danjoc 11y ago
  Meanwhile, Apple alone has > $190b sheltered offshore. I suspect these numbers are skewed in the 1%'s favor.
  - baddox 11y ago
    It's not "hiding." They can't bring it back (i.e. spend it in the US) without paying taxes.
    - Retric 11y ago
      Until then it does not show up as income, so it really is hiding. Further, you can send money off shore by paying off shore subsidiary's for arbitrary costs, in no way does that money purely represent off shore profits outside of pure accounting magic.
      - Goronmon 11y ago
        It seems strange that your definition of "hiding" is "not present in the US". Is most of the population of the world then a "hidden" group of people? That sounds a bit condescending.
        Retric 11y ago
        It's hiding from the IRS not the US. Apple still makes what's going on clear to the SEC which is just a different branch of the US government, stock holders, etc.
        Goronmon 11y ago
        Still, using the term "hiding" makes little sense to me. It's money that not connected to the US or the IRS in anyway, and the information is readily available anyways. Are citizens of other countries "hiding" their income from the IRS then? That makes about as much sense to me as claiming that companies operating in other countries are hiding money from the IRS.
        Retric 11y ago
        “Apple Sales International buys Apple’s finished products from a manufacturer in China, re-sells them at a substantial markup to other Apple affiliates, and retains the resulting profits,” the Senate report says. http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2013/05/21/apples-irish-tax-strategy-explained.html http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2013/05/21/apples-irish-... They do this even for phones sold in the US. So, it really is US profits being shifted off shore. Further they negotiated a 2% rate with Ireland and report profit from other countries there as pure accounting magic.
      - baddox 11y ago
        It doesn't show up in the US as US income, because it's not US income.
        Retric 11y ago
        Moving IP off shore and renting it back to the US is a common tactic, as is buying something with subsidiary A in Ireland which Resells to subsidiary B in the US at a markup before selling in the US. So, much of this really is US income.
    - danjoc 11y ago
      Thank you for restating the point of my comment. Apple is not paying tax on the $190B. So it would seem the numbers from the article are skewed in favor of the 1%, as Apple is one of the largest members of that exclusive club.
Retric 11y ago
Before or after taxes and deductions? By some measures it's ~25% others closer to 50%. PS: Remember if your getting information from Tax info that the information was adjusted to minimize taxable income.

Looks like in 2013 the top 1% earned 21% and paid 41% of California's taxes. https://www.ftb.ca.gov/aboutFTB/Tax_Statistics/Reports/2013/Personal_Income_Tax/B-3.pdf https://www.ftb.ca.gov/aboutFTB/Tax_Statistics/Reports/2013/...

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

hammock 11y ago

According to the data in the article, $281b out of $1,104b, or 25%.

danjoc 11y ago
Meanwhile, Apple alone has > $190b sheltered offshore. I suspect these numbers are skewed in the 1%'s favor.
- baddox 11y ago
  It's not "hiding." They can't bring it back (i.e. spend it in the US) without paying taxes.
  - Retric 11y ago
    Until then it does not show up as income, so it really is hiding. Further, you can send money off shore by paying off shore subsidiary's for arbitrary costs, in no way does that money purely represent off shore profits outside of pure accounting magic.
    - Goronmon 11y ago
      It seems strange that your definition of "hiding" is "not present in the US". Is most of the population of the world then a "hidden" group of people? That sounds a bit condescending.
      - Retric 11y ago
        It's hiding from the IRS not the US. Apple still makes what's going on clear to the SEC which is just a different branch of the US government, stock holders, etc.
        Goronmon 11y ago
        Still, using the term "hiding" makes little sense to me. It's money that not connected to the US or the IRS in anyway, and the information is readily available anyways. Are citizens of other countries "hiding" their income from the IRS then? That makes about as much sense to me as claiming that companies operating in other countries are hiding money from the IRS.
        Retric 11y ago
        “Apple Sales International buys Apple’s finished products from a manufacturer in China, re-sells them at a substantial markup to other Apple affiliates, and retains the resulting profits,” the Senate report says. http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2013/05/21/apples-irish-tax-strategy-explained.html http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2013/05/21/apples-irish-... They do this even for phones sold in the US. So, it really is US profits being shifted off shore. Further they negotiated a 2% rate with Ireland and report profit from other countries there as pure accounting magic.
    - baddox 11y ago
      It doesn't show up in the US as US income, because it's not US income.
      - Retric 11y ago
        Moving IP off shore and renting it back to the US is a common tactic, as is buying something with subsidiary A in Ireland which Resells to subsidiary B in the US at a markup before selling in the US. So, much of this really is US income.
  - danjoc 11y ago
    Thank you for restating the point of my comment. Apple is not paying tax on the $190B. So it would seem the numbers from the article are skewed in favor of the 1%, as Apple is one of the largest members of that exclusive club.

Retric 11y ago

Before or after taxes and deductions? By some measures it's ~25% others closer to 50%. PS: Remember if your getting information from Tax info that the information was adjusted to minimize taxable income.