5 ms·

I think you may have missed the "..." there. He didn't call him a goat, more like one who lays with goats.

venomsnake 10y ago
I doubt it. Goats have standards and we are talking about Erdogan. The only way the act would have occurred is if the animal was deceased. Anyway - Cameron was accused seriously to have received oral sex by the vehicle of a roasted pig just a month ago - and he did the unthinkable - shrug it off. No one was prosecuted in Germany. and i am sure their tabloids reported it.
- vidarh 10y ago
  As much as I despise Cameron, he's smart enough - or has smart enough advisors - to realise that having the claims in question discussed at length in court would have kept it in the news far longer. It of course helped that most people - including those of us who very much would have loved for it to blow up much more than it did - realised that Lord Ashcroft very much had an axe to grind.
bayesian_horse 10y ago
These are completely different cases. Cameron acted wisely, Erdogan acted stupidly. Cameron was "insulted" by a whole slew of people that way, considering all the attention the topic got. Erdogan has a single target to go after, legally speaking. And the applicable laws in both cases differ substantially, too.
unprepare 10y ago
I've seen days of coverage on whether Obama is a 'secret muslim terrorist' I've seen people call Obama a monkey, the anti christ, dumbass, marxist, etc. That was on national TV Freedom of speech is core to the American political system, tbh I am quite surprised and disappointed to find out Germany is so regressive on speech.
- rayiner 10y ago
  A mayor of a U.S. town was on the White House lawn handing out leaflets calling Obama a "magic mulatto."
- vidarh 10y ago
  Maybe you should wait and see whether these guys actually gets convicted before pronouncing Germany regressive on speech. Plenty of people make complaints over ridiculous things in the US too - what matters is what the result is.
  - unprepare 10y ago
    And if Obama himself made actions to allow such a lawsuit to move forward, it would be seen countrywide as an egregious move against free speech. For Merkel to personally get involved and say that the guy should be prosecuted is a hit against freedom of speech in germany, regardless of the outcome.
    - vidarh 10y ago
      Imagine if Obama took actions to interfere with the judicial process to deny prosecution in response to someone wanting to pursue a claim under a law that was on the books? In this case Merkel was dealt bad cards: A law that should have been removed a long time ago puts the issue on her table. If she had opted to deny consent, it would have been a blow to the principles of separation of powers, the very thing many European governments - including Germany - are criticizing Poland, Hungary and Turkey for violating right now. It would have made her a total hypocrite. So she has opted to stay out, and taken the opportunity to raise the issue of removing this paragraph.
      - unprepare 10y ago
        Hmmm... Defend human rights and look like a hypocrite, or allow human rights to be abused and look like not a hypocrite? I wouldnt have come to the same conclusion as Merkel.
chris_wot 10y ago
He actually said that an example of an insult that is unlawful is to say that Erdogan lies with goats.

I doubt it. Goats have standards and we are talking about Erdogan. The only way the act would have occurred is if the animal was deceased. Anyway - Cameron was accused seriously to have received oral sex by the vehicle of a roasted pig just a month ago - and he did the unthinkable - shrug it off. No one was prosecuted in Germany. and i am sure their tabloids reported it.

vidarh 10y ago
As much as I despise Cameron, he's smart enough - or has smart enough advisors - to realise that having the claims in question discussed at length in court would have kept it in the news far longer. It of course helped that most people - including those of us who very much would have loved for it to blow up much more than it did - realised that Lord Ashcroft very much had an axe to grind.

bayesian_horse 10y ago

These are completely different cases. Cameron acted wisely, Erdogan acted stupidly. Cameron was "insulted" by a whole slew of people that way, considering all the attention the topic got. Erdogan has a single target to go after, legally speaking. And the applicable laws in both cases differ substantially, too.

unprepare 10y ago

I've seen days of coverage on whether Obama is a 'secret muslim terrorist' I've seen people call Obama a monkey, the anti christ, dumbass, marxist, etc. That was on national TV Freedom of speech is core to the American political system, tbh I am quite surprised and disappointed to find out Germany is so regressive on speech.

rayiner 10y ago
A mayor of a U.S. town was on the White House lawn handing out leaflets calling Obama a "magic mulatto."
vidarh 10y ago
Maybe you should wait and see whether these guys actually gets convicted before pronouncing Germany regressive on speech. Plenty of people make complaints over ridiculous things in the US too - what matters is what the result is.
- unprepare 10y ago
  And if Obama himself made actions to allow such a lawsuit to move forward, it would be seen countrywide as an egregious move against free speech. For Merkel to personally get involved and say that the guy should be prosecuted is a hit against freedom of speech in germany, regardless of the outcome.
  - vidarh 10y ago
    Imagine if Obama took actions to interfere with the judicial process to deny prosecution in response to someone wanting to pursue a claim under a law that was on the books? In this case Merkel was dealt bad cards: A law that should have been removed a long time ago puts the issue on her table. If she had opted to deny consent, it would have been a blow to the principles of separation of powers, the very thing many European governments - including Germany - are criticizing Poland, Hungary and Turkey for violating right now. It would have made her a total hypocrite. So she has opted to stay out, and taken the opportunity to raise the issue of removing this paragraph.
    - unprepare 10y ago
      Hmmm... Defend human rights and look like a hypocrite, or allow human rights to be abused and look like not a hypocrite? I wouldnt have come to the same conclusion as Merkel.

chris_wot 10y ago

He actually said that an example of an insult that is unlawful is to say that Erdogan lies with goats.