3 ms·

I think people understand it OK. Böhmermann very clearly violated that law, on television, deliberately. The law makes no exception for intent. So if he hasn't

I think people understand it OK. Böhmermann very clearly violated that law, on television, deliberately. The law makes no exception for intent. So if he hasn't violated the law then what would? And unfortunately it says, quite clearly, it is punished by a jail sentence. Unless German courts are an absolute joke he is going to rot in jail for a while. The only person who could have stopped that outcome is Merkel. And what has she done? She has said in public, unambiguously that she doesn't want to do this BUT IS DOING IT ANYWAY TO PLEASE ERDOGAN. That's a huge problem for everyone in Europe. Germany is very powerful in the EU. If the German leader is willing to publicly bend over and obey whilst simultaneously protesting then Erdogan is realising that he has Germany (and thus the EU) by the balls. What will he demand next?

germanier 11y ago
Even if he were found guilty (which isn't as certain as you make it seem) jail is not required by this law. A fine is a much more likely outcome.
Xylakant 11y ago
> Unless German courts are an absolute joke he is going to rot in jail for a while. The law says punishable with up to 5 years in jail or a monetary fine. "wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe, im Falle der verleumderischen Beleidigung mit Freiheitsstrafe von drei Monaten bis zu fünf Jahren bestraft." There's no way this will end up with a jail sentence.
- sievebrain 11y ago
  I stand corrected. I hope you are right. Nonetheless, I see no way he can escape punishment unless the courts choose to ignore the law entirely by setting the fine to one euro or something like that, which seems like an unfortunate thing for courts to do in general, even if in this case it'd be highly convenient. SO there is still no way around the fact that Merkel should not have done this.
  - Xylakant 11y ago
    > I see no way he can escape punishment unless the courts choose to ignore the law entirely It's actually quite well possible that there's no punishment in the end. The case hinges on the question whether the poem and its presentation were satire thus still protected or pure defamation. The scholars are divided about this, but there seems to be a slight majority on the side of protected speech. Then there wouldn't be an offense and thus no case and no punishment. There's a lot of factors playing into this, Böhmermann was treading on the line as he certainly was aware of, but in his favor the long standing rulings accept that the tone of the critique can be adapted to the target or the critique. Since Erdogan is known not to mince words, that plays into Böhmermanns favor. Using the same words on the Dalai Lama would be a much more clear cut case. Things are going to be interesting in the next couple of month/years :) If there's a court case I fully expect that to go up to the constitutional court.
rbehrends 11y ago
> Böhmermann very clearly violated that law, on television, deliberately. The law makes no exception for intent. So if he hasn't violated the law then what would? And unfortunately it says, quite clearly, it is punished by a jail sentence. Unless German courts are an absolute joke he is going to rot in jail for a while. You will find that the majority of actual lawyers who have voiced an opinion actually disagree with you; there's no doubt that this is a bit of a gray area, but the Constitutional Court generally allows only very narrow exceptions when it comes to even heated and offensive utterances in the arena of public discourse. This does not even account for the fact that non-violent first time offenders rarely ever go to jail in Germany, except for the most serious of crimes.

germanier 11y ago

Even if he were found guilty (which isn't as certain as you make it seem) jail is not required by this law. A fine is a much more likely outcome.

Xylakant 11y ago

> Unless German courts are an absolute joke he is going to rot in jail for a while. The law says punishable with up to 5 years in jail or a monetary fine. "wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe, im Falle der verleumderischen Beleidigung mit Freiheitsstrafe von drei Monaten bis zu fünf Jahren bestraft." There's no way this will end up with a jail sentence.

sievebrain 11y ago
I stand corrected. I hope you are right. Nonetheless, I see no way he can escape punishment unless the courts choose to ignore the law entirely by setting the fine to one euro or something like that, which seems like an unfortunate thing for courts to do in general, even if in this case it'd be highly convenient. SO there is still no way around the fact that Merkel should not have done this.
- Xylakant 11y ago
  > I see no way he can escape punishment unless the courts choose to ignore the law entirely It's actually quite well possible that there's no punishment in the end. The case hinges on the question whether the poem and its presentation were satire thus still protected or pure defamation. The scholars are divided about this, but there seems to be a slight majority on the side of protected speech. Then there wouldn't be an offense and thus no case and no punishment. There's a lot of factors playing into this, Böhmermann was treading on the line as he certainly was aware of, but in his favor the long standing rulings accept that the tone of the critique can be adapted to the target or the critique. Since Erdogan is known not to mince words, that plays into Böhmermanns favor. Using the same words on the Dalai Lama would be a much more clear cut case. Things are going to be interesting in the next couple of month/years :) If there's a court case I fully expect that to go up to the constitutional court.

rbehrends 11y ago

> Böhmermann very clearly violated that law, on television, deliberately. The law makes no exception for intent. So if he hasn't violated the law then what would? And unfortunately it says, quite clearly, it is punished by a jail sentence. Unless German courts are an absolute joke he is going to rot in jail for a while. You will find that the majority of actual lawyers who have voiced an opinion actually disagree with you; there's no doubt that this is a bit of a gray area, but the Constitutional Court generally allows only very narrow exceptions when it comes to even heated and offensive utterances in the arena of public discourse. This does not even account for the fact that non-violent first time offenders rarely ever go to jail in Germany, except for the most serious of crimes.