4 ms·

I mean, doesn't that count as 'having something to hide'? I think we're in agreement though. As has been rehashed on HN many times, it's a bogus argument.

IanCal 11y ago
That's probably quite technically correct, although I think the wording "hide" implies you've done something wrong. "If you've got nothing to protect..." definitely has a different feeling to it.
- theseatoms 11y ago
  Absolutely. That's a much fairer phrasing of the 'nothing to hide' argument. Next time someone presents the 'if you have nothing to hide argument', tell them to send you a video of each of their family members on the toilet.
  - fapjacks 11y ago
    Right! The ole toilet argument seems to win over everybody. I was in the Army for a long time, and right after 9/11 during our pre-mobilization for our first deployment, we mobilized out of Fort Stewart, in Georgia. We were put up in these awful billets from WW2. Just awful. Anyways, the bathrooms only had rows of toilets immediately behind rows of sinks. So if you went to shit in the morning (literally knee-to-knee with the guy shitting next to you), someone's ass was in your face as they brushed their teeth. It was at once one of the most enlightening moments of my life about the cultural concept of privacy that we have these days. We have an expectation of privacy that obviously they did not enjoy in days of yore. And we have got to fight to keep it.
mtgx 11y ago
Yes, instead of trying to defend privacy as "we don't have anything to hide, we just don't want it to be public", how about we admit that we DO have stuff to hide - all the time, and every single one of us. If the government wants to discover something then get an individual warrant upon probable cause, as the Constitution requires. We're not supposed to let it know everything we do or say, while it is increasingly more secretive with its own actions. It should be the other way around. But most of us have bought into the government's propaganda that "if you have something to hide, then you must be a criminal", which isn't that different from the argument that "if you oppose the war in Iraq (or elsewhere) then you're not a patriot, or you're a terrorist sympathizer". Stop buying the U.S. government's bullshit propaganda. Start with rejecting it by default, and then maybe consider whether it's right or wrong, not by accepting it by default as true. We've been burned too many times trusting the government's lies. We should've learned our lesson by now.
bduerst 11y ago
The whole "having nothing to hide" argument is deflated by "then you have no reason to look".
specialist 11y ago
doesn't that count as 'having something to hide' It's the 'none of your business' facet of privacy.

IanCal 11y ago

That's probably quite technically correct, although I think the wording "hide" implies you've done something wrong. "If you've got nothing to protect..." definitely has a different feeling to it.

theseatoms 11y ago
Absolutely. That's a much fairer phrasing of the 'nothing to hide' argument. Next time someone presents the 'if you have nothing to hide argument', tell them to send you a video of each of their family members on the toilet.
- fapjacks 11y ago
  Right! The ole toilet argument seems to win over everybody. I was in the Army for a long time, and right after 9/11 during our pre-mobilization for our first deployment, we mobilized out of Fort Stewart, in Georgia. We were put up in these awful billets from WW2. Just awful. Anyways, the bathrooms only had rows of toilets immediately behind rows of sinks. So if you went to shit in the morning (literally knee-to-knee with the guy shitting next to you), someone's ass was in your face as they brushed their teeth. It was at once one of the most enlightening moments of my life about the cultural concept of privacy that we have these days. We have an expectation of privacy that obviously they did not enjoy in days of yore. And we have got to fight to keep it.

mtgx 11y ago

Yes, instead of trying to defend privacy as "we don't have anything to hide, we just don't want it to be public", how about we admit that we DO have stuff to hide - all the time, and every single one of us. If the government wants to discover something then get an individual warrant upon probable cause, as the Constitution requires. We're not supposed to let it know everything we do or say, while it is increasingly more secretive with its own actions. It should be the other way around. But most of us have bought into the government's propaganda that "if you have something to hide, then you must be a criminal", which isn't that different from the argument that "if you oppose the war in Iraq (or elsewhere) then you're not a patriot, or you're a terrorist sympathizer". Stop buying the U.S. government's bullshit propaganda. Start with rejecting it by default, and then maybe consider whether it's right or wrong, not by accepting it by default as true. We've been burned too many times trusting the government's lies. We should've learned our lesson by now.

bduerst 11y ago

The whole "having nothing to hide" argument is deflated by "then you have no reason to look".

specialist 11y ago

doesn't that count as 'having something to hide' It's the 'none of your business' facet of privacy.