5 ms·

Well, define "Insane" - if we're talking an extra $5-$7 on a $20 charger, I, personally, am completely fine with that as long as it means I can rely that it wil

Well, define "Insane" - if we're talking an extra $5-$7 on a $20 charger, I, personally, am completely fine with that as long as it means I can rely that it will perform to spec, not damage my equipment, and provide full data rate performance. Particularly how important USB chargers are every single day of my life. This is a much bigger deal with USB 3.1, as according to http://www.extremetech.com/computing/197145-reversible-usb-type-c-finally-on-its-way-alongside-usb-3-1s-10gbit-performance http://www.extremetech.com/computing/197145-reversible-usb-t..., we're looking at up to 100 watts of power being sent down the wire - I very, very, very much want to be certain that the gear I'm connecting to the charger doesn't get torched by the wrong power levels. I think there is a reasonable middle ground between "Small Elite Group" and "Everyone" - I.E. given that the global market for USB chargers will be on the order of approx 1 Billion units/year (certainly more than 100 million, and probably less than 10 Billion) - and given that a 4-port charger goes for about $20 today, presuming the cost of those chargers goes to, say, $27, then that's $27 Billion revenue/year. (Some chargers will be single/dual port, but other chargers will be more expensive/featured - we're schwagging here). Probably sufficient to support on the order of 2-3 thousand companies that have been certified, presuming that each company needs to drive around 10mm revenue/year after certified their product(s). I'm satisfied with being limited to 2000 or so USB charger vendors of hopefully higher quality, than 10,000+ of who-knows quality.

gambiting 11y ago
The problem is that there are other countries out there apart from UK, US, Germany and other rich western ones. Where I'm from(Poland) the minimum wage is about $2.60/hour at the moment. And it's not like Apple/Samsung/Sony/any other big manufacturer sell chargers cheaper just because we earn less. Original Apple USB charger costs about $30 here - that's more than a day of work for a lot of people. Those people are going to look for cheap USB chargers, even if they are sub standard quality - and the market will fill that niche one way or the other.
- saiya-jin 11y ago
  buying overpriced equipment (apple) while complaining that with low wage you really feel the difference of price for a freakin' charger doesn't make much sense.
  - striking 11y ago
    In this case, the Apple charger is the only one you'll be able to get, because USB3.1 is restricting the group of people that can make chargers. That or the licensing will make it prohibitively expensive no matter what. Pick your poison, I suppose. Seriously, the tech situation in Poland is really sad. We don't need USB3.1 making it worse. (I'm a citizen)
  - StavrosK 11y ago
    It doesn't make sense to complain that an accessory you can buy for $5 will now cost $30 because your phone is expensive? How does that line of reasoning even follow? This is literally the same as saying "I won't be able to afford higher cigarette prices" "well don't get an expensive phone then".
  - wila 11y ago
    I lived in a country where $10 was a normal day wage. Lots and lots of iPhones there. It is a choice, THEIR choice. It is not up to you (or me) to be snobby and tell them not to buy expensive products because they don't earn enough money to do so. When the charger that comes with the product breaks they'll need another one. If they can buy a cheap one that "just works" then yes that will make a difference. Even if the cheap one isn't certified. Not all of them are the horrific death traps that have been highlighted.
- ghshephard 11y ago
  If I'm making very little money, and I have equipment that requires a USB 3.1 charger, then it is even more important that my (expensive) equipment is not damaged - then, instead of being out an extra $7 for a charger, I've potentially lost many hundreds of dollars damaged by a out-of-spec charger/cable. This is a very real problem: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/02/google-engineer-finds-usb-type-c-cable-thats-so-bad-it-fried-his-chromebook-pixel/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/02/google-engineer-finds... This wasn't that big of a deal in the Pre 3.1 era, because the power levels typically being supplied were less, and there was a broad understanding of the power levels that were going to be supplied. You write, "Those people are going to look for cheap USB chargers, even if they are sub standard quality - and the market will fill that niche one way or the other." - and I totally agree with you, which is the entire reason why these certification programs are required - to ensure that only systems certified to be in-spec will be recognized. My 10 Watt USB charger, that I've carried with me all over the world for 2+ years, powers up my iPhone, my iPad, and my battery-backups. I use it every single day, usually multiple times/day. I realize that an extra $7 can be a lot of money for some people, but, spread over 2 years, for something so important, it seems to be a reasonable investment. It becomes an even bigger deal once you can also charge your laptop off the same charger.
  - nraynaud 11y ago
    If they actually cared about energy quality and equipment protection, they would check and protect on electric criteria at the plug, not add an electronic signature.
    - ghshephard 11y ago
      I don't know which, "they" you are referring to here - the end customer, the standards body, the charger manufacturer, or the manufacturer of the equipment being charged? The customer quite often just wants the cheapest price, the charger manufacturer doesn't care about anything other than selling lots of chargers, the two groups that do care, the Standard Body, and the manufacturers of the equipment being charged do care about energy quality and equipment protection. In the case of the manufacturer of the equipment being charged - you are right, they can take steps to protect their equipment, but it costs a bit of money to engineer a subsystem to detect a 100 watt charge and protect the upstream gear - likely cheaper just to query and confirm that the downstream device is certified and then trust it (somewhat). You still need the protection (defense in depth) - but starting off with certified chargers certainly helps. The standards body, really has every incentive to ensure that the only certified vendors can manufacture chargers that will be (broadly) accepted.
- 2muchcoffeeman 11y ago
  Is it really a problem though? As you said, the market will fill the niche either way. This extra effort is not going to effect people who can only buy the cheapest chargers. They will buy the knock offs as they have always done. The rest of us can now be certain that our chargers are within spec.

gambiting 11y ago

The problem is that there are other countries out there apart from UK, US, Germany and other rich western ones. Where I'm from(Poland) the minimum wage is about $2.60/hour at the moment. And it's not like Apple/Samsung/Sony/any other big manufacturer sell chargers cheaper just because we earn less. Original Apple USB charger costs about $30 here - that's more than a day of work for a lot of people. Those people are going to look for cheap USB chargers, even if they are sub standard quality - and the market will fill that niche one way or the other.

saiya-jin 11y ago
buying overpriced equipment (apple) while complaining that with low wage you really feel the difference of price for a freakin' charger doesn't make much sense.
- striking 11y ago
  In this case, the Apple charger is the only one you'll be able to get, because USB3.1 is restricting the group of people that can make chargers. That or the licensing will make it prohibitively expensive no matter what. Pick your poison, I suppose. Seriously, the tech situation in Poland is really sad. We don't need USB3.1 making it worse. (I'm a citizen)
- StavrosK 11y ago
  It doesn't make sense to complain that an accessory you can buy for $5 will now cost $30 because your phone is expensive? How does that line of reasoning even follow? This is literally the same as saying "I won't be able to afford higher cigarette prices" "well don't get an expensive phone then".
- wila 11y ago
  I lived in a country where $10 was a normal day wage. Lots and lots of iPhones there. It is a choice, THEIR choice. It is not up to you (or me) to be snobby and tell them not to buy expensive products because they don't earn enough money to do so. When the charger that comes with the product breaks they'll need another one. If they can buy a cheap one that "just works" then yes that will make a difference. Even if the cheap one isn't certified. Not all of them are the horrific death traps that have been highlighted.
ghshephard 11y ago
If I'm making very little money, and I have equipment that requires a USB 3.1 charger, then it is even more important that my (expensive) equipment is not damaged - then, instead of being out an extra $7 for a charger, I've potentially lost many hundreds of dollars damaged by a out-of-spec charger/cable. This is a very real problem: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/02/google-engineer-finds-usb-type-c-cable-thats-so-bad-it-fried-his-chromebook-pixel/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/02/google-engineer-finds... This wasn't that big of a deal in the Pre 3.1 era, because the power levels typically being supplied were less, and there was a broad understanding of the power levels that were going to be supplied. You write, "Those people are going to look for cheap USB chargers, even if they are sub standard quality - and the market will fill that niche one way or the other." - and I totally agree with you, which is the entire reason why these certification programs are required - to ensure that only systems certified to be in-spec will be recognized. My 10 Watt USB charger, that I've carried with me all over the world for 2+ years, powers up my iPhone, my iPad, and my battery-backups. I use it every single day, usually multiple times/day. I realize that an extra $7 can be a lot of money for some people, but, spread over 2 years, for something so important, it seems to be a reasonable investment. It becomes an even bigger deal once you can also charge your laptop off the same charger.
- nraynaud 11y ago
  If they actually cared about energy quality and equipment protection, they would check and protect on electric criteria at the plug, not add an electronic signature.
  - ghshephard 11y ago
    I don't know which, "they" you are referring to here - the end customer, the standards body, the charger manufacturer, or the manufacturer of the equipment being charged? The customer quite often just wants the cheapest price, the charger manufacturer doesn't care about anything other than selling lots of chargers, the two groups that do care, the Standard Body, and the manufacturers of the equipment being charged do care about energy quality and equipment protection. In the case of the manufacturer of the equipment being charged - you are right, they can take steps to protect their equipment, but it costs a bit of money to engineer a subsystem to detect a 100 watt charge and protect the upstream gear - likely cheaper just to query and confirm that the downstream device is certified and then trust it (somewhat). You still need the protection (defense in depth) - but starting off with certified chargers certainly helps. The standards body, really has every incentive to ensure that the only certified vendors can manufacture chargers that will be (broadly) accepted.
2muchcoffeeman 11y ago
Is it really a problem though? As you said, the market will fill the niche either way. This extra effort is not going to effect people who can only buy the cheapest chargers. They will buy the knock offs as they have always done. The rest of us can now be certain that our chargers are within spec.