3 ms·

Wishful thinking. We're always going to have older versions of Internet Explorer that won't support any new JavaScript features.

by mhansen 17y ago

InclinedPlane 17y ago
This is why everyone is still coding to within the limits of NCSA Mosaic 0.8b? Or, could be that though change can sometimes seem painfully slow for people who have to support every browser under the Sun, things do change over time. Without people pushing the standards forward we wouldn't even have javascript, let alone XHR, let alone CSS 2, or proper PNG support. Standards should evolve. It's not wishful thinking, it's forward thinking. Perhaps on a longer timetable than you're used to dealing with but unless you enjoy the limitations of HTML 1.0 then you need to thank every single person who had the foresight and expended the requisite elbow grease to push the standards forward. The surest route to defeat is to surrender.
bugs 17y ago
This is the problem you have people that think they need to fully support these older browsers and cripple their systems in the process. I really hope the movement of upgrading browsers and furthering the web standards starts happening more. The real problem is that the internet has such a low barrier to entry because of the way everything is setup, this is why when you call tech support for a broken modem you have to go through thirty useless steps like is plugged in to the wall is it plugged in to the computer, people are becoming helpless towards new technology because we are letting them be helpless. People have a very large ability to learn even when they are older, my grandfather for example has learned how to use the computer to buy movie tickets, buy plane tickets and check into flights, and keep in touch with the family without any help from me or any other person in my family. Of course I help him if he has an issue but the thing is he tries to solve the problem himself and maybe once in 3 years I have had to help him with troubleshooting. Contrast that with the facebook login debacle, people so frustrated and helpless that they are posting on a blog post about how they don't understand why they would change the login page that they don't realize they are on the wrong site. This could be solved if they went to a class on how to use the web or even a child or friend giving them a step by step paper guide on what to do when you are looking for a site. People learn by experience and the older generation of people that are just now gaining access to the web, many still learning how to use a computer properly, are finding difficulties with simplest of tasks for the rest of us because they are pushed into shark infested waters with no direction or guidance. I think one of the main problems with the web is trying to appeal to every market; this is why we have people fighting to support internet explorer 6 for every website or app they create because they have to support that market to be competitive and if nothing changes soon we will be stuck in a very slow moving bubble.
spoondan 17y ago
Nobody is forcing web developers to deliver equivalent experiences on older versions of Internet Explorer. Look at your statistics and make an informed decision about what you should care about. You may not have to care about anything but IE8. Or you may be able to deliver a simplified style-sheet and JavaScript to IE7 and below. Encourage your users to upgrade. People have overreacted to the bad practices prevalent 15 years ago. "This site requires Internet Explorer," was folly, but so is, "This site looks and works exactly the same on everything from IE6 to the latest WebKit build." The former lets you build cool stuff but limits your audience, the latter keeps you from building cool stuff.

Wishful thinking. We're always going to have older versions of Internet Explorer that won't support any new JavaScript features.

by mhansen 17y ago

Wishful thinking. We're always going to have older versions of Internet Explorer that won't support any new JavaScript features.

InclinedPlane 17y ago

This is why everyone is still coding to within the limits of NCSA Mosaic 0.8b? Or, could be that though change can sometimes seem painfully slow for people who have to support every browser under the Sun, things do change over time. Without people pushing the standards forward we wouldn't even have javascript, let alone XHR, let alone CSS 2, or proper PNG support. Standards should evolve. It's not wishful thinking, it's forward thinking. Perhaps on a longer timetable than you're used to dealing with but unless you enjoy the limitations of HTML 1.0 then you need to thank every single person who had the foresight and expended the requisite elbow grease to push the standards forward. The surest route to defeat is to surrender.

bugs 17y ago

This is the problem you have people that think they need to fully support these older browsers and cripple their systems in the process. I really hope the movement of upgrading browsers and furthering the web standards starts happening more. The real problem is that the internet has such a low barrier to entry because of the way everything is setup, this is why when you call tech support for a broken modem you have to go through thirty useless steps like is plugged in to the wall is it plugged in to the computer, people are becoming helpless towards new technology because we are letting them be helpless. People have a very large ability to learn even when they are older, my grandfather for example has learned how to use the computer to buy movie tickets, buy plane tickets and check into flights, and keep in touch with the family without any help from me or any other person in my family. Of course I help him if he has an issue but the thing is he tries to solve the problem himself and maybe once in 3 years I have had to help him with troubleshooting. Contrast that with the facebook login debacle, people so frustrated and helpless that they are posting on a blog post about how they don't understand why they would change the login page that they don't realize they are on the wrong site. This could be solved if they went to a class on how to use the web or even a child or friend giving them a step by step paper guide on what to do when you are looking for a site. People learn by experience and the older generation of people that are just now gaining access to the web, many still learning how to use a computer properly, are finding difficulties with simplest of tasks for the rest of us because they are pushed into shark infested waters with no direction or guidance. I think one of the main problems with the web is trying to appeal to every market; this is why we have people fighting to support internet explorer 6 for every website or app they create because they have to support that market to be competitive and if nothing changes soon we will be stuck in a very slow moving bubble.

spoondan 17y ago

Nobody is forcing web developers to deliver equivalent experiences on older versions of Internet Explorer. Look at your statistics and make an informed decision about what you should care about. You may not have to care about anything but IE8. Or you may be able to deliver a simplified style-sheet and JavaScript to IE7 and below. Encourage your users to upgrade. People have overreacted to the bad practices prevalent 15 years ago. "This site requires Internet Explorer," was folly, but so is, "This site looks and works exactly the same on everything from IE6 to the latest WebKit build." The former lets you build cool stuff but limits your audience, the latter keeps you from building cool stuff.