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How do corporate developers test and debug things without the root password? In some cases, you need to be able to start Visual Studio in UAC mode, and debug an

How do corporate developers test and debug things without the root password? In some cases, you need to be able to start Visual Studio in UAC mode, and debug an already running process...

kingnothing 11y ago
I have no idea. I work for a very large software company and we all have root.
- HeavyStorm 11y ago
  Which is to be expected since your core business is software. I work for a very large consulting company and I also have administrative access. But my client's machine do not - big insurance companies, banks, publishers, Telcos, petrochemicals, etc. Why? Tell me, if you were a system's administrator in charge of 10.000+, would you risk it? That's everything that's bad in corporate culture, but as you get big, it happens.
ramchip 11y ago
I worked in a bank previously. We did not have root, but we had a utility to run certain commands "as administrator". It popped up a dialog where you had to input a justification for auditing purposes. I don't recall needing it for debugging though, even when attaching to a running process (was your process started as a different user?)
dsl 11y ago
From a security perspective, we ask: why are you developing applications that can't be ran by normal users? For the 1% of devs working on system level stuff we provide VMs or separate physical servers that aren't joined to the corporate domain and don't have sensitive information on them.
- soft_dev_person 11y ago
  As an example, VS needs UAC permission to integrate with a local IIS install, so there's a big group of .NET-based web developers that really need it with such a setup. But honestly, giving a developer non-admin privileges of their own (as in their work environment) computer is like giving a carpenter a rubber hammer to hammer nails. I find it insulting.
  - sixbrx 11y ago
    At a lot of workplaces (like mine) it goes beyond that - developers aren't allowed to install software even under their own user account, where admin privs aren't needed. Consider the irony of that, when one of the approved pieces of software is a compiler. We can make our own programs, hello!?
- Delmania 11y ago
  > From a security perspective, we ask: why are you developing applications that can't be ran by normal users? Really? This question from a security engineer on Hacker News? I can tell you've never developed on Windows because (as pointed out) Visual Studio needs root level permissions to operate. The level of access a user needs to run my program has nothing to do with the level of access I need to build the program. They are completely disjoint.
  - itomek 11y ago
    I'm sorry but you are incorrect. VS needs admin rights to install into Program Files, registry updates and GAC install, etc. Otherwise the apps a developer builds are run in in their own process and unless there are special circumstances, should not need admin privs; VS should never be run as admin apart from those special circumstances.
    - jasonjei 11y ago
      What about tools like Docker or VirtualBox? Every time those high-frequency release software are updated, you need to request sudo using the audit tool or request for IT to update? I can't even imagine writing a kernel hardware driver in a corporate setup if they at subjecting development environments to strict lockdown.
pjmlp 11y ago
You generate a time limited root password alongside a reason why are you requesting it. This applies to any OS being used. If you are an external, might additionally need to have an employee sitting with you in case you are trying to use something business critical.
HeavyStorm 11y ago
We either don't need it, or get stuck and end up crying in the bathroom. Thing is, why do developers create software that needs administrative access to the os? I wish that I could simply download a zip of the software, extract it and run. And already this wouldn't work: most software is distributed only through an installer. Heck, even PortableApps website distribute their portable products using an installer!

How do corporate developers test and debug things without the root password? In some cases, you need to be able to start Visual Studio in UAC mode, and debug an already running process...

kingnothing 11y ago

I have no idea. I work for a very large software company and we all have root.

HeavyStorm 11y ago
Which is to be expected since your core business is software. I work for a very large consulting company and I also have administrative access. But my client's machine do not - big insurance companies, banks, publishers, Telcos, petrochemicals, etc. Why? Tell me, if you were a system's administrator in charge of 10.000+, would you risk it? That's everything that's bad in corporate culture, but as you get big, it happens.

ramchip 11y ago

I worked in a bank previously. We did not have root, but we had a utility to run certain commands "as administrator". It popped up a dialog where you had to input a justification for auditing purposes. I don't recall needing it for debugging though, even when attaching to a running process (was your process started as a different user?)

dsl 11y ago

From a security perspective, we ask: why are you developing applications that can't be ran by normal users? For the 1% of devs working on system level stuff we provide VMs or separate physical servers that aren't joined to the corporate domain and don't have sensitive information on them.

soft_dev_person 11y ago
As an example, VS needs UAC permission to integrate with a local IIS install, so there's a big group of .NET-based web developers that really need it with such a setup. But honestly, giving a developer non-admin privileges of their own (as in their work environment) computer is like giving a carpenter a rubber hammer to hammer nails. I find it insulting.
- sixbrx 11y ago
  At a lot of workplaces (like mine) it goes beyond that - developers aren't allowed to install software even under their own user account, where admin privs aren't needed. Consider the irony of that, when one of the approved pieces of software is a compiler. We can make our own programs, hello!?
Delmania 11y ago
> From a security perspective, we ask: why are you developing applications that can't be ran by normal users? Really? This question from a security engineer on Hacker News? I can tell you've never developed on Windows because (as pointed out) Visual Studio needs root level permissions to operate. The level of access a user needs to run my program has nothing to do with the level of access I need to build the program. They are completely disjoint.
- itomek 11y ago
  I'm sorry but you are incorrect. VS needs admin rights to install into Program Files, registry updates and GAC install, etc. Otherwise the apps a developer builds are run in in their own process and unless there are special circumstances, should not need admin privs; VS should never be run as admin apart from those special circumstances.
  - jasonjei 11y ago
    What about tools like Docker or VirtualBox? Every time those high-frequency release software are updated, you need to request sudo using the audit tool or request for IT to update? I can't even imagine writing a kernel hardware driver in a corporate setup if they at subjecting development environments to strict lockdown.

pjmlp 11y ago

You generate a time limited root password alongside a reason why are you requesting it. This applies to any OS being used. If you are an external, might additionally need to have an employee sitting with you in case you are trying to use something business critical.

HeavyStorm 11y ago

We either don't need it, or get stuck and end up crying in the bathroom. Thing is, why do developers create software that needs administrative access to the os? I wish that I could simply download a zip of the software, extract it and run. And already this wouldn't work: most software is distributed only through an installer. Heck, even PortableApps website distribute their portable products using an installer!