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That was funny but it's time to dispel the Kobe "ballhog" myth. Consider that Kobe logged a career average of 4.7 assists per game. Compared to other elite sh

That was funny but it's time to dispel the Kobe "ballhog" myth. Consider that Kobe logged a career average of 4.7 assists per game. Compared to other elite shooting guards/small forwards: * Michael Jordan - 5.3 * Lebron James - 6.9 * Kevin Durant - 3.7 * Carmelo Anthony - 3.2 * Dwayne Wade - 5.8

duaneb 11y ago
I don't know basketball. Are those players known for assists?
- waynecochran 11y ago
  It generally known that if you pass to Carmelo you'll never see the ball again.
- saeranv 11y ago
  They're some of the best players in the league. 3 out of 5 are MVPs. For context in terms of contemporary players known for assists: Chris Paul: 9.95 John Wall: 8.95 Rajon Rondo: 8.70 (surprised that he's not higher!) Steve Nash: 8.49 Russel Westbrook: 7.59 eta: Should note that these guys are point guards.
- stinkytaco 11y ago
  Those players, with the exception of Michael Jordan who is an exception to almost all NBA players ever, are forwards or shooting guards. Their job is not to assist, it is to shoot. That said, basketball is more mobile now than it every was and passing plays such as the pick and roll are an essential part of any team's arsenal. A good player will assist his teammates as well as shoot. On the other hand, it's really not fair to pick out these players as good or bad since their circumstances have all varied. LeBron James played on teams with Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Ron Artest, Kevin Love and other excellent players. Kobe Bryant played with Shaquille O'Neil; Michael Jordan with Scott Pippen and so on. It's easy to pass when the players around you are also capable of scoring. I honestly can't think of a great shooter who's played with Carmelo Anthony. That could be because he's a ball hog and they never get to shoot and are thus forgotten, it could also be that he's the only good shooter and a centerpiece of their team.
  - __derek__ 11y ago
    > Those players, with the exception of Michael Jordan who is an exception to almost all NBA players ever, are forwards or shooting guards. I don't understand that sentence. Jordan was a 2 who moved to the 3 later in his career.
    - stinkytaco 11y ago
      I think Jordan played as both a shooting guard and a point guard in his career. Sometimes be played them both in the same game. When he played for the wizards he played more of a small forward. During his comeback (and second championship dynasty) he was shooting over 40% from three point range, which is basically PG material. As a younger player he was a solid rebounder as well. He also won defensive player of the year once. That's a pretty versatile player.
      - __derek__ 11y ago
        Sure, he was frequently the primary ball-handler, but that's also been the case for Kobe, LeBron, and Kevin Durant. That does not make any of them a point guard. In fact, the elevated three-point percentage is indicative of a shooting guard rather than a point guard. Think Reggie Miller versus John Stockton. Point guards typically have a defender playing them close, which makes it harder to get a clean and reasonable shot. Unless, of course, you're Steph Curry, who can shoot from anywhere.
        stinkytaco 11y ago
        Perhaps the better argument would be that these players (i.e. generally the best players on the court at any given time, whomever they were playing), don't really fit the normal positions. In fact, as I pointed out above, the modern NBA has really broken down positional play. At one time you would have a point guard at the arc, distributing to a shooting guard for the outside shot, a strong forward or center to drive the basket or a small forward to move it to one of those players. Michael Jordan broke that mold in a time where that mold was still dominating tactical thinking. In the past 5-10 years, however, the game has come to rely on a mobile, smaller player. Draymond Green and Kawhi Leonard are good examples. The screen play, one of the most popular plays in modern basketball, requires both players be able to shoot, since who shoots is dependent on which player the defender pivots to. In addition, these players become important defensively important because of their ability to quickly react to fast movement of the ball. It's not coincidence that both of the players I listed are considered top defenders, despite playing forward. Kawahi Leonard has won defensive player of the year twice, and that award is dominated by centers and, to a lesser extent, guards.
waynecochran 11y ago
John Stockton averaged 10.5 assists per game. I wonder what Kobe's assists were after Shaq left?
- chishaku 11y ago
  John Stockton was a point guard so that's not an apt comparison. Kobe averaged 6.0 assists per game the year after Shaq left, the highest season average of his career.
  - waynecochran 11y ago
    You're right -- although of all the great players, Kobe seemed the worst at making the players around him better. Of course, I have not watched the NBA lately, so don't take me too seriously.
    - at-fates-hands 11y ago
      While this is true, there is a lot a negativity around the fact that Kobe was the second coming of Michael Jordan in nearly every sense. What I mean by that is he copied his style, his shot, his drive to perform, but you're spot on in pointing out it really was all about him. Jordan took pay cuts to get better guys around him, he relentlessly made guys play up to his standards. Kobe took huge contracts, drove out other players who made the team better and refused to let others share his spotlight. What I remember most is in several games after Shaq left, watching come down the court and repeatedly looking guys off who were wide open, then either take a wild three point shot, or drive the lane and lose the ball. Here is a video comparison of Jordan plays vs. Kobe plays: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v27Hk5OIe-k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v27Hk5OIe-k
      - aljones 11y ago
        I've never seen Jordan accused of taking a pay cut before. The lockout was because of his huge salary. I don't even think there was a salary cap then...
      - 11y ago

duaneb 11y ago

I don't know basketball. Are those players known for assists?

waynecochran 11y ago
It generally known that if you pass to Carmelo you'll never see the ball again.
saeranv 11y ago
They're some of the best players in the league. 3 out of 5 are MVPs. For context in terms of contemporary players known for assists: Chris Paul: 9.95 John Wall: 8.95 Rajon Rondo: 8.70 (surprised that he's not higher!) Steve Nash: 8.49 Russel Westbrook: 7.59 eta: Should note that these guys are point guards.
stinkytaco 11y ago
Those players, with the exception of Michael Jordan who is an exception to almost all NBA players ever, are forwards or shooting guards. Their job is not to assist, it is to shoot. That said, basketball is more mobile now than it every was and passing plays such as the pick and roll are an essential part of any team's arsenal. A good player will assist his teammates as well as shoot. On the other hand, it's really not fair to pick out these players as good or bad since their circumstances have all varied. LeBron James played on teams with Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Ron Artest, Kevin Love and other excellent players. Kobe Bryant played with Shaquille O'Neil; Michael Jordan with Scott Pippen and so on. It's easy to pass when the players around you are also capable of scoring. I honestly can't think of a great shooter who's played with Carmelo Anthony. That could be because he's a ball hog and they never get to shoot and are thus forgotten, it could also be that he's the only good shooter and a centerpiece of their team.
- __derek__ 11y ago
  > Those players, with the exception of Michael Jordan who is an exception to almost all NBA players ever, are forwards or shooting guards. I don't understand that sentence. Jordan was a 2 who moved to the 3 later in his career.
  - stinkytaco 11y ago
    I think Jordan played as both a shooting guard and a point guard in his career. Sometimes be played them both in the same game. When he played for the wizards he played more of a small forward. During his comeback (and second championship dynasty) he was shooting over 40% from three point range, which is basically PG material. As a younger player he was a solid rebounder as well. He also won defensive player of the year once. That's a pretty versatile player.
    - __derek__ 11y ago
      Sure, he was frequently the primary ball-handler, but that's also been the case for Kobe, LeBron, and Kevin Durant. That does not make any of them a point guard. In fact, the elevated three-point percentage is indicative of a shooting guard rather than a point guard. Think Reggie Miller versus John Stockton. Point guards typically have a defender playing them close, which makes it harder to get a clean and reasonable shot. Unless, of course, you're Steph Curry, who can shoot from anywhere.
      - stinkytaco 11y ago
        Perhaps the better argument would be that these players (i.e. generally the best players on the court at any given time, whomever they were playing), don't really fit the normal positions. In fact, as I pointed out above, the modern NBA has really broken down positional play. At one time you would have a point guard at the arc, distributing to a shooting guard for the outside shot, a strong forward or center to drive the basket or a small forward to move it to one of those players. Michael Jordan broke that mold in a time where that mold was still dominating tactical thinking. In the past 5-10 years, however, the game has come to rely on a mobile, smaller player. Draymond Green and Kawhi Leonard are good examples. The screen play, one of the most popular plays in modern basketball, requires both players be able to shoot, since who shoots is dependent on which player the defender pivots to. In addition, these players become important defensively important because of their ability to quickly react to fast movement of the ball. It's not coincidence that both of the players I listed are considered top defenders, despite playing forward. Kawahi Leonard has won defensive player of the year twice, and that award is dominated by centers and, to a lesser extent, guards.

waynecochran 11y ago

John Stockton averaged 10.5 assists per game. I wonder what Kobe's assists were after Shaq left?

chishaku 11y ago
John Stockton was a point guard so that's not an apt comparison. Kobe averaged 6.0 assists per game the year after Shaq left, the highest season average of his career.
- waynecochran 11y ago
  You're right -- although of all the great players, Kobe seemed the worst at making the players around him better. Of course, I have not watched the NBA lately, so don't take me too seriously.
  - at-fates-hands 11y ago
    While this is true, there is a lot a negativity around the fact that Kobe was the second coming of Michael Jordan in nearly every sense. What I mean by that is he copied his style, his shot, his drive to perform, but you're spot on in pointing out it really was all about him. Jordan took pay cuts to get better guys around him, he relentlessly made guys play up to his standards. Kobe took huge contracts, drove out other players who made the team better and refused to let others share his spotlight. What I remember most is in several games after Shaq left, watching come down the court and repeatedly looking guys off who were wide open, then either take a wild three point shot, or drive the lane and lose the ball. Here is a video comparison of Jordan plays vs. Kobe plays: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v27Hk5OIe-k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v27Hk5OIe-k
    - aljones 11y ago
      I've never seen Jordan accused of taking a pay cut before. The lockout was because of his huge salary. I don't even think there was a salary cap then...
    - 11y ago