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> I can safely say that Microsoft tools are Developers friendly most of the time You only think that because you have used it and became accustomed to vstudio.

> I can safely say that Microsoft tools are Developers friendly most of the time You only think that because you have used it and became accustomed to vstudio. As someone who has used vstudio, eclipse, atom, intellij, vim, emacs - I can safely say that vim and emacs are far more 'developer-friendly' than the others.

ngrilly 10y ago
Why?
- Ace17 10y ago
  Because the low-level modularity of Vim and Emacs gives you more control, by letting you choose the combination of tools you use ; instead of tying together the language(s), the compiler, the tag/completion engine, the build/project system, the debugger, the profiler, like many IDEs do. The sole concept of IDEs specialized for one language makes me cringe.
  - JoBrad 10y ago
    > The sole concept of IDEs specialized for one language makes me cringe. Can you explain this a bit? I don't see that Sublime, VS Code, Atom, etc. were made for one language, at all. As a little background, I've used vim for a while, then switched to Sublime Text, and am just trying VS Code. I find Sublime/VS Code/Atom to be far easier to customize than vim.
    - Skinney 10y ago
      I'm pretty sure he is referring to Eclipse, Visual Studio and the like.
    - Ace17 10y ago
      This is not what I said: I consider Atom and Sublime Text to be advanced general-purpose text editors, not IDEs. I was indeed referring to Eclipse and Visual Studio. From what I observed around me, for some reason, people don't use these to edit: - shellscripts/perlscripts/batchfiles. - Files written in a in-house domain-specific language. - Configuration files. - Makefiles and project files: vcxproj, sln ... Actually, I observed that these kind of IDEs discouraged people doing the above things, giving them the impression that it's not "real development" (I suspect that this is, in part, where the bizarre term "scripting language" comes from, but this is another debate).
  - yoz-y 10y ago
    I am a long time Vim user but I have never ever managed to get c++ tag completion work consistently there. At some point I just stopped trying - went to Qt creator and turned on Vim plugin there. The experience (for C++) is just vastly superior. The IDE integrates with CMake natively, the debugger is graphical and works, the symbol navigation over all project is blazing fast, I have real refactoring etc... I still use Vim a lot, for JavaScript, for text, for remote sessions... But when a tool with real semantic highlighting and understanding of code is available (with a Vim plugin) then I'll take that.
    - inDigiNeous 10y ago
      Check out https://valloric.github.io/YouCompleteMe/ https://valloric.github.io/YouCompleteMe/ C/C++ completion for VIM. Of course an IDE like QT Creator does many things better. But it's a tradeoff always.
      - anon4 10y ago
        Unless your project uses CMake, YCM is really hard to set up. You basically have to write a parser for your build system and plug it in. And that doesn't solve the problem of having one file compiled with different flags, which happens frequently. And it won't do completion in headers because those aren't actually compiled. It all really comes down to Vim not having the concept of workspaces and projects - Vim only views files as the filesystem sees them, rather than as your build tools see them. That, to me, is Vim's greatest failing and biggest source of gripes.

ngrilly 10y ago

Why?

Ace17 10y ago
Because the low-level modularity of Vim and Emacs gives you more control, by letting you choose the combination of tools you use ; instead of tying together the language(s), the compiler, the tag/completion engine, the build/project system, the debugger, the profiler, like many IDEs do. The sole concept of IDEs specialized for one language makes me cringe.
- JoBrad 10y ago
  > The sole concept of IDEs specialized for one language makes me cringe. Can you explain this a bit? I don't see that Sublime, VS Code, Atom, etc. were made for one language, at all. As a little background, I've used vim for a while, then switched to Sublime Text, and am just trying VS Code. I find Sublime/VS Code/Atom to be far easier to customize than vim.
  - Skinney 10y ago
    I'm pretty sure he is referring to Eclipse, Visual Studio and the like.
  - Ace17 10y ago
    This is not what I said: I consider Atom and Sublime Text to be advanced general-purpose text editors, not IDEs. I was indeed referring to Eclipse and Visual Studio. From what I observed around me, for some reason, people don't use these to edit: - shellscripts/perlscripts/batchfiles. - Files written in a in-house domain-specific language. - Configuration files. - Makefiles and project files: vcxproj, sln ... Actually, I observed that these kind of IDEs discouraged people doing the above things, giving them the impression that it's not "real development" (I suspect that this is, in part, where the bizarre term "scripting language" comes from, but this is another debate).
- yoz-y 10y ago
  I am a long time Vim user but I have never ever managed to get c++ tag completion work consistently there. At some point I just stopped trying - went to Qt creator and turned on Vim plugin there. The experience (for C++) is just vastly superior. The IDE integrates with CMake natively, the debugger is graphical and works, the symbol navigation over all project is blazing fast, I have real refactoring etc... I still use Vim a lot, for JavaScript, for text, for remote sessions... But when a tool with real semantic highlighting and understanding of code is available (with a Vim plugin) then I'll take that.
  - inDigiNeous 10y ago
    Check out https://valloric.github.io/YouCompleteMe/ https://valloric.github.io/YouCompleteMe/ C/C++ completion for VIM. Of course an IDE like QT Creator does many things better. But it's a tradeoff always.
    - anon4 10y ago
      Unless your project uses CMake, YCM is really hard to set up. You basically have to write a parser for your build system and plug it in. And that doesn't solve the problem of having one file compiled with different flags, which happens frequently. And it won't do completion in headers because those aren't actually compiled. It all really comes down to Vim not having the concept of workspaces and projects - Vim only views files as the filesystem sees them, rather than as your build tools see them. That, to me, is Vim's greatest failing and biggest source of gripes.