4 ms·

This is only a popularity contest among the known characters and their known interactions. For instance, Littlefinger started out seemingly as a small player bu

by talmand 11y ago

This is only a popularity contest among the known characters and their known interactions. For instance, Littlefinger started out seemingly as a small player but then we learn later he was actually a rather significant player in almost all aspects of what has been happening so far. Granted his obvious interactions are with rather important people but by appearances the number of interactions seem low while actually being quite large. As for Tyrion; he has a high position in life, hangs out with a large number of similar characters, and even crosses an ocean to meet up with more of that group that the others have not met yet. Regardless, I would say he's not so significant to what's going on simply because most of the others don't listen to a thing he says, even though he's right most of the time, so he doesn't have as much impact on events as he should. Just because he's present at significant events doesn't make him significant. Although, I admit those reasons are why I find him one of the more interesting characters. Seems fun but I don't see how it can answer the question without it just being about today's favorite. It cannot be fully answered until the end.

repsilat 11y ago
> [Tyrion is] not so significant He was essentially responsible for the successful defense of King's Landing at the Battle of the Blackwater. If he hadn't been there, Stannis would be on the Iron Throne -- I'd call that high-impact. I agree that Littlefinger's impact is under-represented by this measure, though. And obviously Arya has had no impact on anything important at all ti date...
- lizardking 11y ago
  Not to mention his kidnapping was responsible for the war that broke out in the first book and set the stage for every major event in the series. He also put a cross bow bolt through the gut of the guy who had been running the 7 kingdoms.
  - talmand 11y ago
    The kidnapping was not the reason, it was the excuse. He was also accused of killing the King, which is more important than killing his father in the scheme of things. But notice he didn't do it and not many characters care anymore. Tywin wasn't running the 7 kingdoms and never did. Once he came into that level of power there was no unity in the kingdoms, half of them or so in open revolt. He controlled King's Landing and related lands through his grandchild. His family was broke and the only thing they had left was family on the throne (which is not a rightful claim), which is quickly dwindling away and under direct threat from multiple fronts. Notice that once he was dead, it was swept away to something not to worry over just like much of anything involving Tyrion. Tyrion has been present at many significant events but in the end has little impact on their outcomes. I suspect he'll continue this trend and then one day people may actually start listening to him, which will make things really interesting. This is one of the things that make this story interesting; that anybody can be made insignificant regardless of their position and power. If there is to be a main character named, I would say it's the "game" because all the characters are just pieces on the board.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- talmand 11y ago
  Defense of King's Landing? You mean the event that everyone immediately dismissed and took credit away from him? How many characters even recall it that way? It was significant at that moment, but dwindled away to next to nothing almost immediately. Other than that one thing, Tyrion has mostly gone along for the ride, which fits his character. As for Stannis being on the Iron Throne, it would makes some things different but it would not make a huge difference in the overall storyline so far as to what's coming. We wouldn't have gotten all the fun stuff with Tyrion's family true, but most of everything else likely would have continued on the same. Just because Stannis would have taken the throne wouldn't mean everything else would suddenly stop or change.
  - SolarNet 11y ago
    But remember what they are saying they are trying to find here is the main character, not the main character in the universe. You actually argue against your own point. You say this is a popularity contest, and then say no one in universe would remember it that way. But if his impact, and hence relationship to the actual story, is what this measures.
    - talmand 11y ago
      But I am talking about the story, not the universe. There is no main character to a universe. But I'm not understanding how I'm arguing against my own point, could you elaborate? I'm saying that the chart is an indication of a popularity contest as defined by the rules of the chart. But the rules of the chart does not necessarily follow the rules defined by the story. As for the events that I'm saying the characters don't recall the same as it happened, that's my point that the character did not have that much impact to the overall story because their involvement is forgotten or has been deemed unimportant by the other characters. Therefore, Tyrion's impact has been negligible to the story overall. For the most part, almost all the characters have had very little impact to the story overall; which I find really interesting. They have significant moments that's a huge impact to the characters individually, but may not have much significance to the story as a whole. So far I would say that Littlefinger is the closest to a main character we have with this type of thing in mind. Simply because he has influenced almost everything that has happened so far in some way. Almost all the deaths in the story have had an effect on readers simply because almost all the characters have the same weight (or whatever term) as any other despite their position in the perceived power structure. The story taught us very early that no one is safe, therefore there is no easy choice to be made as to who the hero or villain of the story is. Because so far neither really exists. This is one of the many reasons I find this story so interesting, it doesn't read as your typical hero-vs-villain fantasy story where you can guess the outcome before the end of the second act.
- saeranv 11y ago
  One of my favorite, subtle parts of the series is that the prisoner escape Arya engineered for Robett Glover and his men, was actually already planned. Glover had struck a deal with Vargo Hoat to release them once they were in prison to take over Harrenhal. Which means, once again Arya wasted her wish. Further analysis here: https://racefortheironthrone.wordpress.com/2015/10/14/chapter-by-chapter-analysis-arya-ix/ https://racefortheironthrone.wordpress.com/2015/10/14/chapte...
  - talmand 11y ago
    Yes, I absolutely love Arya's character because of things like that. She is a major factor of teaching the reader how the world works because we learn through her realizations of her failures and disappointments just as she does.
zem 11y ago
> For instance, Littlefinger started out seemingly as a small player but then we learn later he was actually a rather significant player in almost all aspects of what has been happening so far. Granted his obvious interactions are with rather important people but by appearances the number of interactions seem low while actually being quite large. i would argue that that makes him a significant plot device, rather than a significant character. tyrion is a major character not because he influences events the most, but because a lot of the book focuses on how events relate to him and vice versa.
- talmand 11y ago
  But I see that as a difference of a character being significant to the reader versus significant to the story.

by talmand 11y ago

repsilat 11y ago

> [Tyrion is] not so significant He was essentially responsible for the successful defense of King's Landing at the Battle of the Blackwater. If he hadn't been there, Stannis would be on the Iron Throne -- I'd call that high-impact. I agree that Littlefinger's impact is under-represented by this measure, though. And obviously Arya has had no impact on anything important at all ti date...

lizardking 11y ago
Not to mention his kidnapping was responsible for the war that broke out in the first book and set the stage for every major event in the series. He also put a cross bow bolt through the gut of the guy who had been running the 7 kingdoms.
- talmand 11y ago
  The kidnapping was not the reason, it was the excuse. He was also accused of killing the King, which is more important than killing his father in the scheme of things. But notice he didn't do it and not many characters care anymore. Tywin wasn't running the 7 kingdoms and never did. Once he came into that level of power there was no unity in the kingdoms, half of them or so in open revolt. He controlled King's Landing and related lands through his grandchild. His family was broke and the only thing they had left was family on the throne (which is not a rightful claim), which is quickly dwindling away and under direct threat from multiple fronts. Notice that once he was dead, it was swept away to something not to worry over just like much of anything involving Tyrion. Tyrion has been present at many significant events but in the end has little impact on their outcomes. I suspect he'll continue this trend and then one day people may actually start listening to him, which will make things really interesting. This is one of the things that make this story interesting; that anybody can be made insignificant regardless of their position and power. If there is to be a main character named, I would say it's the "game" because all the characters are just pieces on the board.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
talmand 11y ago
Defense of King's Landing? You mean the event that everyone immediately dismissed and took credit away from him? How many characters even recall it that way? It was significant at that moment, but dwindled away to next to nothing almost immediately. Other than that one thing, Tyrion has mostly gone along for the ride, which fits his character. As for Stannis being on the Iron Throne, it would makes some things different but it would not make a huge difference in the overall storyline so far as to what's coming. We wouldn't have gotten all the fun stuff with Tyrion's family true, but most of everything else likely would have continued on the same. Just because Stannis would have taken the throne wouldn't mean everything else would suddenly stop or change.
- SolarNet 11y ago
  But remember what they are saying they are trying to find here is the main character, not the main character in the universe. You actually argue against your own point. You say this is a popularity contest, and then say no one in universe would remember it that way. But if his impact, and hence relationship to the actual story, is what this measures.
  - talmand 11y ago
    But I am talking about the story, not the universe. There is no main character to a universe. But I'm not understanding how I'm arguing against my own point, could you elaborate? I'm saying that the chart is an indication of a popularity contest as defined by the rules of the chart. But the rules of the chart does not necessarily follow the rules defined by the story. As for the events that I'm saying the characters don't recall the same as it happened, that's my point that the character did not have that much impact to the overall story because their involvement is forgotten or has been deemed unimportant by the other characters. Therefore, Tyrion's impact has been negligible to the story overall. For the most part, almost all the characters have had very little impact to the story overall; which I find really interesting. They have significant moments that's a huge impact to the characters individually, but may not have much significance to the story as a whole. So far I would say that Littlefinger is the closest to a main character we have with this type of thing in mind. Simply because he has influenced almost everything that has happened so far in some way. Almost all the deaths in the story have had an effect on readers simply because almost all the characters have the same weight (or whatever term) as any other despite their position in the perceived power structure. The story taught us very early that no one is safe, therefore there is no easy choice to be made as to who the hero or villain of the story is. Because so far neither really exists. This is one of the many reasons I find this story so interesting, it doesn't read as your typical hero-vs-villain fantasy story where you can guess the outcome before the end of the second act.
saeranv 11y ago
One of my favorite, subtle parts of the series is that the prisoner escape Arya engineered for Robett Glover and his men, was actually already planned. Glover had struck a deal with Vargo Hoat to release them once they were in prison to take over Harrenhal. Which means, once again Arya wasted her wish. Further analysis here: https://racefortheironthrone.wordpress.com/2015/10/14/chapter-by-chapter-analysis-arya-ix/ https://racefortheironthrone.wordpress.com/2015/10/14/chapte...
- talmand 11y ago
  Yes, I absolutely love Arya's character because of things like that. She is a major factor of teaching the reader how the world works because we learn through her realizations of her failures and disappointments just as she does.

zem 11y ago

> For instance, Littlefinger started out seemingly as a small player but then we learn later he was actually a rather significant player in almost all aspects of what has been happening so far. Granted his obvious interactions are with rather important people but by appearances the number of interactions seem low while actually being quite large. i would argue that that makes him a significant plot device, rather than a significant character. tyrion is a major character not because he influences events the most, but because a lot of the book focuses on how events relate to him and vice versa.

talmand 11y ago
But I see that as a difference of a character being significant to the reader versus significant to the story.