4 ms·

There's also a follow up where the wget UI is redesigned [0]. It's important to also read this because that's where the argument falls completely apart: most of

by EdiX 11y ago

There's also a follow up where the wget UI is redesigned [0]. It's important to also read this because that's where the argument falls completely apart: most of the features have been sacrificed to the altar of "simplicity": the redesigned application is essentially useless. Not only that, the design includes a really nice looking progress bar that is, unfortunately, impossible to implement. [0] http://www.uxdesignedge.com/2011/11/don%E2%80%99t-design-like-a-programmer-part-3/ http://www.uxdesignedge.com/2011/11/don%E2%80%99t-design-lik...

1_player 11y ago
I do not agree. He explained the thought process two times: 1) "The target users for SiteNabber are intermediate computer users. They have enough knowledge about computers and the Internet to want to copy a website’s files, but they aren’t so advanced that they would prefer using a more complex existing solution. Experts who want to control every detail aren’t target users!" I agree with that. If you need a GUI you're not comfortable playing with wget from the command line and/or spending time reading the wget documentation. But you're advanced enough to know it is possible to download whole websites (!) 2) "Step 12: Test with real users, so there’s a good chance that I have some details wrong. This is normal and expected." Design, like programming, is a never ending process. Last 20% take 80% of the time, yadda yadda. I am a programmer, and I desperately want to learn what is wrong with my designs. This article explained very clearly what is wrong in my (and most programmers) thought process when designing an UI: Programmer flow: Write code -> Design UI around code -> Change code -> Apply changes to UI -> Rinse & Repeat Correct, designer flow: Think long and hard about your target users and why they'll use your product -> Design the UI around their goals -> Write code -> Test with humans -> Adapt design to better suit their needs -> Rinse & Repeat In the "Programmer's flow", code changes drive UI changes. When the code is feature complete and bug free the app is done. The correct way is to have end users drive your UI changes. And till users aren't satisfied you are not done, even if the code is perfect.
- wpietri 11y ago
  > The correct way is to have end users drive your UI changes. And till users aren't satisfied you are not done, even if the code is perfect. Yes! If we make an app for other people, we must actually make it for other people.
- utexaspunk 11y ago
  "If you need a GUI you're not comfortable playing with wget from the command line and/or spending time reading the wget documentation. But you're advanced enough to know it is possible to download whole websites (!)" I disagree. Sure, I could run wGet from the command line, but then I have to either know what various switches/options are available and what kind of input it's expecting or consult the help parameter/man page. Maybe it's a tool I only use every once in a while. The GUI puts all those options in front of me at once, with the ability to select them right next to the description of what they are, and the "ugly" GUI doesn't require me to navigate to sub-forms to discover/change other options available to me. ...but then, I'm a programmer, so what do I know?
- tomelders 11y ago
  SiteNabber is a completely different App, with a previously undefined objective, aimed at a "user" they just invented on the spot.
ape4 11y ago
The redesign is generally good. But "nab" is a less common word than "get".

by EdiX 11y ago

1_player 11y ago

I do not agree. He explained the thought process two times: 1) "The target users for SiteNabber are intermediate computer users. They have enough knowledge about computers and the Internet to want to copy a website’s files, but they aren’t so advanced that they would prefer using a more complex existing solution. Experts who want to control every detail aren’t target users!" I agree with that. If you need a GUI you're not comfortable playing with wget from the command line and/or spending time reading the wget documentation. But you're advanced enough to know it is possible to download whole websites (!) 2) "Step 12: Test with real users, so there’s a good chance that I have some details wrong. This is normal and expected." Design, like programming, is a never ending process. Last 20% take 80% of the time, yadda yadda. I am a programmer, and I desperately want to learn what is wrong with my designs. This article explained very clearly what is wrong in my (and most programmers) thought process when designing an UI: Programmer flow: Write code -> Design UI around code -> Change code -> Apply changes to UI -> Rinse & Repeat Correct, designer flow: Think long and hard about your target users and why they'll use your product -> Design the UI around their goals -> Write code -> Test with humans -> Adapt design to better suit their needs -> Rinse & Repeat In the "Programmer's flow", code changes drive UI changes. When the code is feature complete and bug free the app is done. The correct way is to have end users drive your UI changes. And till users aren't satisfied you are not done, even if the code is perfect.

wpietri 11y ago
> The correct way is to have end users drive your UI changes. And till users aren't satisfied you are not done, even if the code is perfect. Yes! If we make an app for other people, we must actually make it for other people.
utexaspunk 11y ago
"If you need a GUI you're not comfortable playing with wget from the command line and/or spending time reading the wget documentation. But you're advanced enough to know it is possible to download whole websites (!)" I disagree. Sure, I could run wGet from the command line, but then I have to either know what various switches/options are available and what kind of input it's expecting or consult the help parameter/man page. Maybe it's a tool I only use every once in a while. The GUI puts all those options in front of me at once, with the ability to select them right next to the description of what they are, and the "ugly" GUI doesn't require me to navigate to sub-forms to discover/change other options available to me. ...but then, I'm a programmer, so what do I know?
tomelders 11y ago
SiteNabber is a completely different App, with a previously undefined objective, aimed at a "user" they just invented on the spot.

ape4 11y ago

The redesign is generally good. But "nab" is a less common word than "get".