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The context of the early 70s was that "The Limits To Growth" and "The Population Bomb" had just been published and there was a real concern in the air that the

The context of the early 70s was that "The Limits To Growth" and "The Population Bomb" had just been published and there was a real concern in the air that the world was going to run out of food quickly unless something drastic was done. I think this created a strong confirmation bias that favored any scientific validation of vegetarianism as good news. Saturated fat being the main component of meats that is not in vegetables, and carbohydrates being the main components of vegetables that are not in meats, the confirmation bias was decidedly pro-carbohydrates, anti-saturated fats. IMHO, whenever you get people saying "Wouldn't it be wonderful if the science said <x> because it would help with <some other thing that is hard to figure out>" you get one of these situations.

epalmer 11y ago
Thanks for this. This seems very plausable. I'm now eating low carb and shuning most vetegable oils. I do use Olive Oil and eat more fish. I use just a little coconut oil. Lost ~28 lbs and have not been sick at all since going ketonic. Still have to lose more weight. I do eat red meat and chicken, turkey. Cheese is a favorite and my bias is I don't want to have to give up cheese.
- codyb 11y ago
  I remember reading that cheese (and dairy products) are actually relatively addictive, apparently because of casein. Here's a link, but it's not the original study just an article about it. I'm sure a google search for "casein yale food addiction study" might turn up better results. http://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/food-drink/cheese-triggers-the-same-part-of-brain-as-hard-drugs-study-finds-a6707011.html http://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/food-drink/chee...
  - bcheung 11y ago
    That's correct. Cheese has a really high concentration of the casein protein which breaks down into casomorphins in the gut which then act like an opioid. Cheese is also very high in advanced glycation end products (AGEs) which are known to cause aging.
    - epalmer 11y ago
      Great, I will be an old addict to cheese.
- pitchka 11y ago
  ketogenic diet is a fad. just like any other diet (paleo and other shit). science today can tell you only that you have to eat a variety of foods, not too much or too little, mostly plants. personalized nutrition will be the solution tailored and true, but that takes a lot of resources and currently uninvented tech.
  - beachstartup 11y ago
    low carb has been around for decades. it's not a fad, by definition. it's also not a fad just because you're annoyed by it. things that are also not fads but probably also annoy you: yoga, jogging, veganism.
    - pitchka 11y ago
      sorry, it is a fad when you put it under a name of keto, or paleo, and try to scientifically prettify it. funny you should state the following, I practice all three. veganism isn't a diet, it never was. if it killed people to be a vegan it wouldn't fit into the same category as paleo or keto. incomparable. these kinds of diets promote an unhealthy relationship with food (orthorexia). this is not some mumbo-jumbo divine philosphy, it is orthorexic to avoid any food if you have no health reason to do it. one can lose weight eating any kind of foods. avoiding modernity, embracing nature, it's all illogical and unscientific. there's nothing wrong with a hamburger, or a chocolate shake, or apples. sugar never kills anyone, sugar never makes anyone obese. it's excessive carbs, fat and sugar that make anyone fat. try eating more calories than you need on paleo, or keto, you'll get fat. now try to eat less calories, be it fast-food be it anything else, you'll lose weight. that's it. anything more scientific you're stepping into the realm of pseudoscience. what happens most of the time is that people who had unhealthy relationship with food find a new unhealthy relationship, but a much healthier diet and then think it's the all-cure pure-science, when it's just a fad. it's unbelievable that this community believes in fad diets (keto, paleo, lchf, atkins, etc.), that it is afraid of food, afraid of sugar.
hx87 11y ago
That being said, I wonder if a worthwhile goal is to breed plants, especially grains, to have higher fat (and specifically higher omega-3 fat) and lower carbohydrate contents. Long term storage might be an issue since unsaturated fats tend to oxidize while carbohydrates are stable, but if it's possible for the fat to be mostly saturated that wouldn't be an issue.
- jonah 11y ago
  Walnuts.
Avshalom 11y ago
Of course on the other hand: wouldn't it be amazingly convenient for the meat industry if just as a massive drought was bringing forth a renewed wave of criticism against the wastefulness of alfalfa for feed; with factory farms being heavily criticized as horrifying cruel; antibiotics in animal feed being blamed for bringing about the MRSApocalypse; hormones being blamed for... well just about anything; along with shit lagoons destroying the environment and cowfarts destroying the ozone layer there was a sudden rush of studies showing that you should be eating more meat. I mean. You know. It plays both ways.
- saalweachter 11y ago
  I suspect there is a certain amount of "meat solidarity", but meat itself is not really a monolithic thing. Pork is roughly twice as efficient as beef to produce, and poultry three times as efficient. Replacing beef in your diet with other meats is already a substantial improvement without the hassle of going full-vegan.
  - Sacho 11y ago
    Err, in this hypothetical, wouldn't that be the case for vegetables as well? Some vegetables would not be as efficient to grow as the most efficient meats, thus you would want to focus on the efficient vegetables...etc
    - mapt 11y ago
      Fresh vegetables are typically only labelled by society as 'fresh vegetables' because they're so calorie-poor you'd need a fridge full of the stuff every day to feed someone enough calories that they don't lose weight. Efficient calories don't often get called 'vegetables', but some sort of essential staple food. Vegetables average around 100 calories per pound: http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/cal-par/calorie-paradox1c.shtml http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/cal-par/calorie-paradox1... . Calories we can produce really, really well with various techniques: Cereal grains - maize, rice, wheat, sorghum / millet Legumes - soya, various beans / lentils / peas Some root vegetables - potato, sweet potato, taro, cassava, yam, beet Sugarcane Plantains & Bananas
zurn 11y ago
Vegetarian diet isn't really connected to low-fat. Meat generally decreases your food's average fat content, since most meat is lean. Vegetarians make up lack of lean meat with more fatty dairy and cholesterol raising eggs.
- ianleeclark 11y ago
  Except a ton of vegetarians don't consume dairy or eggs because they're made from animals.
  - beachstartup 11y ago
    those are vegans.
    - ianleeclark 11y ago
      No, they're vegetarians, as well. Forgive the site, I'm not trying to say anything, but it was the first easy-to-digest reference I found: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/the-different-kinds-of-vegetarians.html http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/the-different-kinds-of...
      - beachstartup 11y ago
        mm hmm.
    - kevb 11y ago
      There are also non-vegan vegetarians who eat a lot of vegan food, or are health or environmental conscious so they minimize egg/dairy while not cutting it out completely.
- brookside 11y ago
  It's my understanding that dietary cholesterol consumption is not correlated with blood cholesterol levels.

epalmer 11y ago

Thanks for this. This seems very plausable. I'm now eating low carb and shuning most vetegable oils. I do use Olive Oil and eat more fish. I use just a little coconut oil. Lost ~28 lbs and have not been sick at all since going ketonic. Still have to lose more weight. I do eat red meat and chicken, turkey. Cheese is a favorite and my bias is I don't want to have to give up cheese.

codyb 11y ago
I remember reading that cheese (and dairy products) are actually relatively addictive, apparently because of casein. Here's a link, but it's not the original study just an article about it. I'm sure a google search for "casein yale food addiction study" might turn up better results. http://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/food-drink/cheese-triggers-the-same-part-of-brain-as-hard-drugs-study-finds-a6707011.html http://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/food-drink/chee...
- bcheung 11y ago
  That's correct. Cheese has a really high concentration of the casein protein which breaks down into casomorphins in the gut which then act like an opioid. Cheese is also very high in advanced glycation end products (AGEs) which are known to cause aging.
  - epalmer 11y ago
    Great, I will be an old addict to cheese.
pitchka 11y ago
ketogenic diet is a fad. just like any other diet (paleo and other shit). science today can tell you only that you have to eat a variety of foods, not too much or too little, mostly plants. personalized nutrition will be the solution tailored and true, but that takes a lot of resources and currently uninvented tech.
- beachstartup 11y ago
  low carb has been around for decades. it's not a fad, by definition. it's also not a fad just because you're annoyed by it. things that are also not fads but probably also annoy you: yoga, jogging, veganism.
  - pitchka 11y ago
    sorry, it is a fad when you put it under a name of keto, or paleo, and try to scientifically prettify it. funny you should state the following, I practice all three. veganism isn't a diet, it never was. if it killed people to be a vegan it wouldn't fit into the same category as paleo or keto. incomparable. these kinds of diets promote an unhealthy relationship with food (orthorexia). this is not some mumbo-jumbo divine philosphy, it is orthorexic to avoid any food if you have no health reason to do it. one can lose weight eating any kind of foods. avoiding modernity, embracing nature, it's all illogical and unscientific. there's nothing wrong with a hamburger, or a chocolate shake, or apples. sugar never kills anyone, sugar never makes anyone obese. it's excessive carbs, fat and sugar that make anyone fat. try eating more calories than you need on paleo, or keto, you'll get fat. now try to eat less calories, be it fast-food be it anything else, you'll lose weight. that's it. anything more scientific you're stepping into the realm of pseudoscience. what happens most of the time is that people who had unhealthy relationship with food find a new unhealthy relationship, but a much healthier diet and then think it's the all-cure pure-science, when it's just a fad. it's unbelievable that this community believes in fad diets (keto, paleo, lchf, atkins, etc.), that it is afraid of food, afraid of sugar.

hx87 11y ago

That being said, I wonder if a worthwhile goal is to breed plants, especially grains, to have higher fat (and specifically higher omega-3 fat) and lower carbohydrate contents. Long term storage might be an issue since unsaturated fats tend to oxidize while carbohydrates are stable, but if it's possible for the fat to be mostly saturated that wouldn't be an issue.

jonah 11y ago
Walnuts.

Avshalom 11y ago

Of course on the other hand: wouldn't it be amazingly convenient for the meat industry if just as a massive drought was bringing forth a renewed wave of criticism against the wastefulness of alfalfa for feed; with factory farms being heavily criticized as horrifying cruel; antibiotics in animal feed being blamed for bringing about the MRSApocalypse; hormones being blamed for... well just about anything; along with shit lagoons destroying the environment and cowfarts destroying the ozone layer there was a sudden rush of studies showing that you should be eating more meat. I mean. You know. It plays both ways.

saalweachter 11y ago
I suspect there is a certain amount of "meat solidarity", but meat itself is not really a monolithic thing. Pork is roughly twice as efficient as beef to produce, and poultry three times as efficient. Replacing beef in your diet with other meats is already a substantial improvement without the hassle of going full-vegan.
- Sacho 11y ago
  Err, in this hypothetical, wouldn't that be the case for vegetables as well? Some vegetables would not be as efficient to grow as the most efficient meats, thus you would want to focus on the efficient vegetables...etc
  - mapt 11y ago
    Fresh vegetables are typically only labelled by society as 'fresh vegetables' because they're so calorie-poor you'd need a fridge full of the stuff every day to feed someone enough calories that they don't lose weight. Efficient calories don't often get called 'vegetables', but some sort of essential staple food. Vegetables average around 100 calories per pound: http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/cal-par/calorie-paradox1c.shtml http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/cal-par/calorie-paradox1... . Calories we can produce really, really well with various techniques: Cereal grains - maize, rice, wheat, sorghum / millet Legumes - soya, various beans / lentils / peas Some root vegetables - potato, sweet potato, taro, cassava, yam, beet Sugarcane Plantains & Bananas

zurn 11y ago

Vegetarian diet isn't really connected to low-fat. Meat generally decreases your food's average fat content, since most meat is lean. Vegetarians make up lack of lean meat with more fatty dairy and cholesterol raising eggs.

ianleeclark 11y ago
Except a ton of vegetarians don't consume dairy or eggs because they're made from animals.
- beachstartup 11y ago
  those are vegans.
  - ianleeclark 11y ago
    No, they're vegetarians, as well. Forgive the site, I'm not trying to say anything, but it was the first easy-to-digest reference I found: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/the-different-kinds-of-vegetarians.html http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/the-different-kinds-of...
    - beachstartup 11y ago
      mm hmm.
  - kevb 11y ago
    There are also non-vegan vegetarians who eat a lot of vegan food, or are health or environmental conscious so they minimize egg/dairy while not cutting it out completely.
brookside 11y ago
It's my understanding that dietary cholesterol consumption is not correlated with blood cholesterol levels.