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It's sad to see people trying to rationalize denial or obstruction of this issue, for example by throwing up endless questions using words like "correlation". Y

It's sad to see people trying to rationalize denial or obstruction of this issue, for example by throwing up endless questions using words like "correlation". You can always ask more questions but that really doesn't contribute, it only obstructs. I've never seen a serious assessment that doubts the general idea, that there is racism in law enforcement.

deleted 11y ago
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deleted 11y ago
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cb18 11y ago
>It's sad to see people trying to rationalize denial or obstruction of this issue, for example by throwing up endless questions (I'm commenting on these issues in general, not necessarily this specific report) It's not sad. It's understandable. It's problematic that we're at a point where we predicate what should be objective discourse on emotion, rather than facts and observations. There are those, such as yourself who we can charitably assume, mean well. But on the other hand you have things like Ferguson, Mo. hijacking countless cognitive cycles, where from all the evidence it is clear that any sort of grave injustice was essentially invented out of whole cloth. Then you have a seemingly constant drum beat of news reports of so-called 'hate crimes' that turn out to be hoaxes.[0] All this is occurring in an environment of constant policing of the "facts that must not be named," which is that there are groups in the US that commit violent crimes at a rate that is widely disproportionate to the country as a whole. Those groups aren't poor whites, or rich whites. People's skepticism and questions are quite understandable. [0] http://fakehatecrimes.org/ http://fakehatecrimes.org/ What's interesting about these so-called hoaxes, is that they themselves are hate crimes. For example if a hoaxer invents a scenario where a white commits a 'hate-crime,' the hoaxer them self is committing a hate crime against whites by portraying whites as a whole in a despicable false light.
- hackuser 11y ago
  > People's skepticism and questions are quite understandable. No they are not, no more than climate change denial. As I said, you can always come up with more obstructionism but that is meaningless.
- kaonashi 11y ago
  https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releas...
cb18 11y ago
I've never seen a serious assessment that doubts the general idea, that there is racism in law enforcement. This is likely the result of what is known as the "filter bubble." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble Police are in fact less likely to kill blacks than whites. Perhaps in absolute terms, but definitely when you factor in the varying behavior patterns of the two groups. But also adjusted to take into account the racial breakdown in violent crime, the data actually show that police are less likely to kill black suspects than white ones. "If one adjusts for the racial disparity in the homicide rate or the rate at which police are feloniously killed, whites are actually more likely to be killed by police than blacks," wrote Moskos. "Adjusted for the homicide rate, whites are 1.7 times more likely than blacks (to) die at the hands of police. Adjusted for the racial disparity at which police are feloniously killed, whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police." http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/09/10/black_lives_matter_getting_blacks_killed_128039.html http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/09/10/black_l... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piwaBO6U43U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piwaBO6U43U
- hackuser 11y ago
  > This is likely the result of what is known as the "filter bubble." Probably it's not useful to say things you have no idea about, such as to speculate on the experiences of people you don't know at all, such as me. The details of course will be complex, but one study on one statistic (by an associate professor at CUNY reported on a partisan political site) doesn't challenge the phenomenon of racial discrimination by law enforcement and in our justice system, both of which are very well documeented.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
User2048 11y ago
Racism is a product of its environment and culture. In a dangerous Black environment where crime rate are very high, and in a Black culture that embrace gangs and thugs and violence, cops have to be cautous against Blacks. And this bias leads to racism. To solve this problem requires a culture and value change from the Black community.
- unprepare 11y ago
  "The killings will continue until morale improves"
- hackuser 11y ago
  The historical fact is that discrimination against black people (and many other people), including slavery, lynching, segregation, etc., long predates any of this. > Black culture that embrace gangs and thugs and violence What do you know about it? It's a little absurd to attach one static 'culture' to all black-skinned Americans, but despite what you see on TV that's not the 'culture' for most people as I know it personally. If you want to characterize it by data, it would be the exposion of education and social mobility to the middle class since black Americans obtained civil rights.
  - User2048 10y ago
    >The historical fact is that discrimination against black people (and many other people), including slavery, lynching, segregation, etc., long predates any of this. Racism in those era, are again, a product of its environment at those time. For example, slavery. >It's a little absurd to attach one static 'culture' to all black-skinned Americans Now, you're speaking in absolute. And it's not good to speak in absolute. >...but despite what you see on TV that's not the 'culture' for most people as I know it personally. Cops are not worry about those good Black people. Cops are worry about the gang bangers, the thugs, the criminals. When cops pull these types of people over, they have to be cautious. These are the types that carried, illegally. Cops need to be careful when dealing with these, and hence, that's where the biased comes from. It did not come from nothing. It comes from the fact that their lives could end. >If you want to characterize it by data, it would be the exposion of education... Agreed. That's why I said it can only be solved through a change in values and culture from the Black community. Education must be emphasis. Kids must stop dropping out. Kids must go to school and learn the necessary skills required to get a jobs. >...and social mobility to the middle class since black Americans obtained civil rights. Getting a great job is the thing that will help Black move into the middle class. Again, the values and culture of the Black community must change to emphasis on getting a better job in order to move up into the middle class. And away from the ghetto. As the ghetttos disappeared or changed into higher claass, cops become more trusting as the crime rates goes down, and that will reduce the racism. This is how you solve it.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

cb18 11y ago

>It's sad to see people trying to rationalize denial or obstruction of this issue, for example by throwing up endless questions (I'm commenting on these issues in general, not necessarily this specific report) It's not sad. It's understandable. It's problematic that we're at a point where we predicate what should be objective discourse on emotion, rather than facts and observations. There are those, such as yourself who we can charitably assume, mean well. But on the other hand you have things like Ferguson, Mo. hijacking countless cognitive cycles, where from all the evidence it is clear that any sort of grave injustice was essentially invented out of whole cloth. Then you have a seemingly constant drum beat of news reports of so-called 'hate crimes' that turn out to be hoaxes.[0] All this is occurring in an environment of constant policing of the "facts that must not be named," which is that there are groups in the US that commit violent crimes at a rate that is widely disproportionate to the country as a whole. Those groups aren't poor whites, or rich whites. People's skepticism and questions are quite understandable. [0] http://fakehatecrimes.org/ http://fakehatecrimes.org/ What's interesting about these so-called hoaxes, is that they themselves are hate crimes. For example if a hoaxer invents a scenario where a white commits a 'hate-crime,' the hoaxer them self is committing a hate crime against whites by portraying whites as a whole in a despicable false light.

hackuser 11y ago
> People's skepticism and questions are quite understandable. No they are not, no more than climate change denial. As I said, you can always come up with more obstructionism but that is meaningless.
kaonashi 11y ago
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releas...

cb18 11y ago

I've never seen a serious assessment that doubts the general idea, that there is racism in law enforcement. This is likely the result of what is known as the "filter bubble." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble Police are in fact less likely to kill blacks than whites. Perhaps in absolute terms, but definitely when you factor in the varying behavior patterns of the two groups. But also adjusted to take into account the racial breakdown in violent crime, the data actually show that police are less likely to kill black suspects than white ones. "If one adjusts for the racial disparity in the homicide rate or the rate at which police are feloniously killed, whites are actually more likely to be killed by police than blacks," wrote Moskos. "Adjusted for the homicide rate, whites are 1.7 times more likely than blacks (to) die at the hands of police. Adjusted for the racial disparity at which police are feloniously killed, whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police." http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/09/10/black_lives_matter_getting_blacks_killed_128039.html http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/09/10/black_l... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piwaBO6U43U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piwaBO6U43U

hackuser 11y ago
> This is likely the result of what is known as the "filter bubble." Probably it's not useful to say things you have no idea about, such as to speculate on the experiences of people you don't know at all, such as me. The details of course will be complex, but one study on one statistic (by an associate professor at CUNY reported on a partisan political site) doesn't challenge the phenomenon of racial discrimination by law enforcement and in our justice system, both of which are very well documeented.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

User2048 11y ago

Racism is a product of its environment and culture. In a dangerous Black environment where crime rate are very high, and in a Black culture that embrace gangs and thugs and violence, cops have to be cautous against Blacks. And this bias leads to racism. To solve this problem requires a culture and value change from the Black community.

unprepare 11y ago
"The killings will continue until morale improves"
hackuser 11y ago
The historical fact is that discrimination against black people (and many other people), including slavery, lynching, segregation, etc., long predates any of this. > Black culture that embrace gangs and thugs and violence What do you know about it? It's a little absurd to attach one static 'culture' to all black-skinned Americans, but despite what you see on TV that's not the 'culture' for most people as I know it personally. If you want to characterize it by data, it would be the exposion of education and social mobility to the middle class since black Americans obtained civil rights.
- User2048 10y ago
  >The historical fact is that discrimination against black people (and many other people), including slavery, lynching, segregation, etc., long predates any of this. Racism in those era, are again, a product of its environment at those time. For example, slavery. >It's a little absurd to attach one static 'culture' to all black-skinned Americans Now, you're speaking in absolute. And it's not good to speak in absolute. >...but despite what you see on TV that's not the 'culture' for most people as I know it personally. Cops are not worry about those good Black people. Cops are worry about the gang bangers, the thugs, the criminals. When cops pull these types of people over, they have to be cautious. These are the types that carried, illegally. Cops need to be careful when dealing with these, and hence, that's where the biased comes from. It did not come from nothing. It comes from the fact that their lives could end. >If you want to characterize it by data, it would be the exposion of education... Agreed. That's why I said it can only be solved through a change in values and culture from the Black community. Education must be emphasis. Kids must stop dropping out. Kids must go to school and learn the necessary skills required to get a jobs. >...and social mobility to the middle class since black Americans obtained civil rights. Getting a great job is the thing that will help Black move into the middle class. Again, the values and culture of the Black community must change to emphasis on getting a better job in order to move up into the middle class. And away from the ghetto. As the ghetttos disappeared or changed into higher claass, cops become more trusting as the crime rates goes down, and that will reduce the racism. This is how you solve it.