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Would you mind sharing a bit more about what happened to you with your startup? Were you due millions and got nothing, or did you just lose some of what you fe

Would you mind sharing a bit more about what happened to you with your startup? Were you due millions and got nothing, or did you just lose some of what you felt you were due? What would you suggest others do in order to avoid that situation of yours?

downandout 11y ago
I lost nearly $13M in equity. I got $0, plus I spent most of what I had at the time trying to pursue it legally. Basically, my business partner (who was already very wealthy before we started the company) and I had a personal falling out (believe it or not, over a woman). He decided that since he had financed everything, that it was his. He pushed me out, but I still had my equity. It turns out, however, that the moment I was out he transferred all of the company's IP to a different corporate entity that he owned 100℅ of (same exact company name, just a different structure). He eventually sold that entity. The only thing he couldn't erase was my name being on the patents, but apparently the acquiring company never bothered asking who I was. But in the end it didn't matter, I simply didn't have enough resources to see it all the way through.
- mangeletti 11y ago
  Omg, I would definitely talk to a litigation attorney again, even if it's been a while. Thanks for sharing that story with me. It's so stressful thinking about the stuff that can happen, esp when doing business with peeps you know.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- fudged71 11y ago
  I'm really interested by these kinds of IP transfers... is there any reading material about them? This is not the first time I've heard of them, it sounds like one of the only viable ways of removing shareholders that you don't want in the company. But it also sounds batshit crazy... shareholders should have more than just 'trust' that a founder isn't going to screw them over so easily.
  - downandout 11y ago
    It is of course actionable, but that assumes that everyone involved is on equal financial footing. Me, independent developer, vs a $13.65 billion market cap company and a cofounder worth more than $100 million usually won't end well no matter how egregious the conduct was.
    - possibility 11y ago
      You can hire lawyers on a contingency basis, which means they don't get paid unless they win. Typically they want half of the settlement money. $7 million dollars is still a lot, and it could be more if there are damages. I know someone who went up against a Dow 30 tech company like this, won $8 million, and walked away with $2 million after tax. Let me know if you want more details, I'll email you.
- a_small_island 11y ago
  Here is downandout's full story from 5 years ago on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3120052 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3120052 I'll reserve my opinion.
  - downandout 11y ago
    Yeah, I made that post out of frustration. After that post I start putting personal and borrowed money into it that I couldn't afford to lose at the time, and nothing came of it. Complete stonewall. The additional details I offered above (the transfer of the IP to a different company bearing a similar name etc) came out as a result of the legal leg work that was done, but I couldn't afford to pursue it further, and now the statue of limitations has long passed. So yeah I wasn't going to name names, but since you posted this old link, in my opinion, no one should ever do business with Allan Camaisa. He is the CEO of a different tech startup today in the mobile space, and I can only assume he is screwing people both inside and outside the company in the same way and possibly new and improved ways. If you would like to see the ire this guy inspires in business associates, look no further than http://eyevelocity.com http://eyevelocity.com . This was a dot com era implosion that he was the CEO of. Allan blew through $40 million of "smart" money - Intel Capital, Chase H&Q, etc. and the company went bankrupt. A spurned employee bought the old domain and 15 years after they blew up is apparently still bitter based on the home page lol (HTS was the parent company of Eyevelocity). His very next venture after that disaster was the one we started together.

downandout 11y ago

I lost nearly $13M in equity. I got $0, plus I spent most of what I had at the time trying to pursue it legally. Basically, my business partner (who was already very wealthy before we started the company) and I had a personal falling out (believe it or not, over a woman). He decided that since he had financed everything, that it was his. He pushed me out, but I still had my equity. It turns out, however, that the moment I was out he transferred all of the company's IP to a different corporate entity that he owned 100℅ of (same exact company name, just a different structure). He eventually sold that entity. The only thing he couldn't erase was my name being on the patents, but apparently the acquiring company never bothered asking who I was. But in the end it didn't matter, I simply didn't have enough resources to see it all the way through.

mangeletti 11y ago
Omg, I would definitely talk to a litigation attorney again, even if it's been a while. Thanks for sharing that story with me. It's so stressful thinking about the stuff that can happen, esp when doing business with peeps you know.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
fudged71 11y ago
I'm really interested by these kinds of IP transfers... is there any reading material about them? This is not the first time I've heard of them, it sounds like one of the only viable ways of removing shareholders that you don't want in the company. But it also sounds batshit crazy... shareholders should have more than just 'trust' that a founder isn't going to screw them over so easily.
- downandout 11y ago
  It is of course actionable, but that assumes that everyone involved is on equal financial footing. Me, independent developer, vs a $13.65 billion market cap company and a cofounder worth more than $100 million usually won't end well no matter how egregious the conduct was.
  - possibility 11y ago
    You can hire lawyers on a contingency basis, which means they don't get paid unless they win. Typically they want half of the settlement money. $7 million dollars is still a lot, and it could be more if there are damages. I know someone who went up against a Dow 30 tech company like this, won $8 million, and walked away with $2 million after tax. Let me know if you want more details, I'll email you.
a_small_island 11y ago
Here is downandout's full story from 5 years ago on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3120052 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3120052 I'll reserve my opinion.
- downandout 11y ago
  Yeah, I made that post out of frustration. After that post I start putting personal and borrowed money into it that I couldn't afford to lose at the time, and nothing came of it. Complete stonewall. The additional details I offered above (the transfer of the IP to a different company bearing a similar name etc) came out as a result of the legal leg work that was done, but I couldn't afford to pursue it further, and now the statue of limitations has long passed. So yeah I wasn't going to name names, but since you posted this old link, in my opinion, no one should ever do business with Allan Camaisa. He is the CEO of a different tech startup today in the mobile space, and I can only assume he is screwing people both inside and outside the company in the same way and possibly new and improved ways. If you would like to see the ire this guy inspires in business associates, look no further than http://eyevelocity.com http://eyevelocity.com . This was a dot com era implosion that he was the CEO of. Allan blew through $40 million of "smart" money - Intel Capital, Chase H&Q, etc. and the company went bankrupt. A spurned employee bought the old domain and 15 years after they blew up is apparently still bitter based on the home page lol (HTS was the parent company of Eyevelocity). His very next venture after that disaster was the one we started together.