5 ms·

So, if we're willing to grant that non-human animals are worthy of ethical consideration and accept that we don't need meat to be healthy or happy, how can slau

So, if we're willing to grant that non-human animals are worthy of ethical consideration and accept that we don't need meat to be healthy or happy, how can slaughtering them for food be considered ethical? >In the usual agricultural animals this is usually straightforward and easy as a consumer — think organically-fed, free-range chickens. I'd counter that it's incredibly not straight forward for consumers. In the US (which I'm the most familiar with), organic has no bearing on the treatment of the animal and qualifiers like "free-range" are either loosely defined or undefined with no third-party oversight. Top that off with ubiquitous practices that most people are surprised by (such as chickens reaching slaughter age in just 6 weeks), I think it's incredibly difficult for people to find products that they can confirm and agree with the ethics of.

peteretep 10y ago
> how can slaughtering them > for food be considered > ethical Humane slaughter that they don't see coming ... what's the issue? I would be more, rather than less, comforted to find out that one day I'll suddenly die painlessly, instantly and unawares, and am not too bothered if it's because someone plans to eat me
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Falling3 10y ago
  Even if that someday is an incredibly small fraction of your natural life? Even as little as 1/100 of what you could live if you were well cared for? I take it that's not what you meant by "one day". If we accept that animals are worthy of moral consideration, then unnecessarily harming them is unequivocally immoral.
  - peteretep 10y ago
    I think if I wasn't going to see it coming, it wouldn't bother me while I was alive, and I'm not the kind of person who believes something will bother me when I'm dead.
    - tempestn 10y ago
      You're saying that if you knew someone was going to kill you sometime in the near future, as long as you wouldn't see it coming, it wouldn't bother you? I expect you're in the minority on that.
      - brian_cloutier 10y ago
        I believe your parent is arguing for a situation where they doesn't even know it'll be in the near future.
mitchtbaum 10y ago
> how can slaughtering [animals] for food be considered ethical? Life begets life. Death is part of life. Where necessary, living requires killing. Where people cultivate The Golden Rule, life will get better and death will get fewer.
- tluyben2 10y ago
  It is not required anymore. You can live fine without. So no.
  - mitchtbaum 10y ago
    I definitely believe humans can live very well without killing. Mushrooms, cannabis seed pomace, spirulina, beans with grains, etc provide great nutrient sources. Still, some people depend on hunting and farm animals now, and it will take a challenging cultural shift and some resources to bootstrap an economically advantageous and (here, commonly viewed) ethical lifestyle change. For myself, I eventually want to sustain dogs, so I hope fermentation\pre-digestion would allow them to live well with these nutrient sources, but as of now, I believe I will need to start them with farmed prey animals that lived well first.
    - tluyben2 10y ago
      Yes it is not easy currently but possible. Especially for humans: I can live off my garden mostly and I do eat eggs of my own chickens (most of which too old to lay). My dogs eat the leftovers of a bar in the village which is cheating but as humans we do not kill (Also not indirectly). I am not opposed to eating meat though but I am and against discrimenation as well; I cannot eat bacon if I cannot eat dog and my chickens are nice; I cannot spare them and eat others. So I abstain. Animals eating pray is different; we humans however can choose and we do not need to. Even if I think if you (or someone else but not some bio factory) get up in the morning and chase your own boar, hang it and slaughter it then it is ok but buying some packet in the shop should at least give you pause. Let me know how the dogfood works out that would be good.
    - alanwatts 10y ago

peteretep 10y ago

> how can slaughtering them > for food be considered > ethical Humane slaughter that they don't see coming ... what's the issue? I would be more, rather than less, comforted to find out that one day I'll suddenly die painlessly, instantly and unawares, and am not too bothered if it's because someone plans to eat me

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Falling3 10y ago
Even if that someday is an incredibly small fraction of your natural life? Even as little as 1/100 of what you could live if you were well cared for? I take it that's not what you meant by "one day". If we accept that animals are worthy of moral consideration, then unnecessarily harming them is unequivocally immoral.
- peteretep 10y ago
  I think if I wasn't going to see it coming, it wouldn't bother me while I was alive, and I'm not the kind of person who believes something will bother me when I'm dead.
  - tempestn 10y ago
    You're saying that if you knew someone was going to kill you sometime in the near future, as long as you wouldn't see it coming, it wouldn't bother you? I expect you're in the minority on that.
    - brian_cloutier 10y ago
      I believe your parent is arguing for a situation where they doesn't even know it'll be in the near future.

mitchtbaum 10y ago

> how can slaughtering [animals] for food be considered ethical? Life begets life. Death is part of life. Where necessary, living requires killing. Where people cultivate The Golden Rule, life will get better and death will get fewer.

tluyben2 10y ago
It is not required anymore. You can live fine without. So no.
- mitchtbaum 10y ago
  I definitely believe humans can live very well without killing. Mushrooms, cannabis seed pomace, spirulina, beans with grains, etc provide great nutrient sources. Still, some people depend on hunting and farm animals now, and it will take a challenging cultural shift and some resources to bootstrap an economically advantageous and (here, commonly viewed) ethical lifestyle change. For myself, I eventually want to sustain dogs, so I hope fermentation\pre-digestion would allow them to live well with these nutrient sources, but as of now, I believe I will need to start them with farmed prey animals that lived well first.
  - tluyben2 10y ago
    Yes it is not easy currently but possible. Especially for humans: I can live off my garden mostly and I do eat eggs of my own chickens (most of which too old to lay). My dogs eat the leftovers of a bar in the village which is cheating but as humans we do not kill (Also not indirectly). I am not opposed to eating meat though but I am and against discrimenation as well; I cannot eat bacon if I cannot eat dog and my chickens are nice; I cannot spare them and eat others. So I abstain. Animals eating pray is different; we humans however can choose and we do not need to. Even if I think if you (or someone else but not some bio factory) get up in the morning and chase your own boar, hang it and slaughter it then it is ok but buying some packet in the shop should at least give you pause. Let me know how the dogfood works out that would be good.
  - alanwatts 10y ago