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> This is also why I am of afraid of a self driving cars and other such life critical software. There are going to be weird edge cases, what prevents you from r

> This is also why I am of afraid of a self driving cars and other such life critical software. There are going to be weird edge cases, what prevents you from reaching them? Yes. However, the current failure rate of human drivers being improved on is the standard I care about. http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/29/crash-data-for-self-driving-cars-may-not-tell-whole-story.html http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/29/crash-data-for-self-driving-c... > After crunching the data, Schoettle and Sivak concluded there's an average of 9.1 crashes involving self-driving vehicles per million miles traveled. That's more than double the rate of 4.1 crashes per one million miles involving conventional vehicles. That is the only number that matters to me. Google gets that to 4.0 per million miles and I'd say they are good to go.

brianwawok 10y ago
So crashes like that include drunk drivers, drugged drivers, and texting drivers. What is the crashes per miles for a paying attention driver? If it is 1 per million miles, the self driving car would need to be a lot lower. Now if it was 4am and I am falling asleep at the wheel, I bet any self driving car would beat me. So cool to turn on, but maybe not for a daytime cruise...
- bcook 10y ago
  Why are you comparing self-driving cars to exclusively a "paying attention driver"? For self-driving cars to be safer than human drivers, there is no requirement that the self-driving cars should be better/safer than the best human driver... the self-driving car simply needs to be safer than the majority of humans.
  - ams6110 10y ago
    It points out that a lot depends on the driver. I drive attentively, and moreover I like driving. I would never want a self-driving car for myself. However some seem to think that should be the only choice because they can beat accident averages that include drivers who drink, text, do makeup, masturbate, whatever while driving.
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    > For self-driving cars to be safer than human drivers, there is no requirement that the self-driving cars should be better/safer than the best human driver... the self-driving car simply needs to be safer than the majority of humans. That is true on a whole, but not true for ME. It needs to be safer than ME, not some hypotehtical average person. Further compounding it: > For driving skills, 93% of the U.S. sample and 69% of the Swedish sample put themselves in the top 50% [0] 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority
    - lfowles 10y ago
      Consider that most driving is done feet away from another vehicle. If those cars start being replaced by self-driving cars, then the you are safer (system safety x personal safety). The car might make more dubious decisions than you would yourself, but now it has less opportunities for failure due to others driving erratically.
    - dagss 10y ago
      Somebody can crash into you.
- duaneb 10y ago
  Is crashes/mile the best metric or mistakes/mile that could lead to a crash? I certainly make a TON of mistakes that I can correct before they lead to problems--most of them are mild, like having to break a half second later than I'd like, but i bet you are UNDERestimating the improvement due to self driving cars.
  - username223 10y ago
    It's definitely crashes per mile. Unexpected stuff happens all the time on real roads -- black ice, debris, animals, flat tires -- and safety depends upon the driver's or software's ability to deal with them. It's easy for self-driving not to wander into another lane because they're changing the radio, but it's hard for them to deal with situations their designers didn't anticipate.
- austinsharp 10y ago
  It's not just crashes per mile - it's the severity of the crashes that needs to be considered too. 5 fender benders is a better outcome than 1 horrific wreck that kills someone.

brianwawok 10y ago

So crashes like that include drunk drivers, drugged drivers, and texting drivers. What is the crashes per miles for a paying attention driver? If it is 1 per million miles, the self driving car would need to be a lot lower. Now if it was 4am and I am falling asleep at the wheel, I bet any self driving car would beat me. So cool to turn on, but maybe not for a daytime cruise...

bcook 10y ago
Why are you comparing self-driving cars to exclusively a "paying attention driver"? For self-driving cars to be safer than human drivers, there is no requirement that the self-driving cars should be better/safer than the best human driver... the self-driving car simply needs to be safer than the majority of humans.
- ams6110 10y ago
  It points out that a lot depends on the driver. I drive attentively, and moreover I like driving. I would never want a self-driving car for myself. However some seem to think that should be the only choice because they can beat accident averages that include drivers who drink, text, do makeup, masturbate, whatever while driving.
- brianwawok 10y ago
  > For self-driving cars to be safer than human drivers, there is no requirement that the self-driving cars should be better/safer than the best human driver... the self-driving car simply needs to be safer than the majority of humans. That is true on a whole, but not true for ME. It needs to be safer than ME, not some hypotehtical average person. Further compounding it: > For driving skills, 93% of the U.S. sample and 69% of the Swedish sample put themselves in the top 50% [0] 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority
  - lfowles 10y ago
    Consider that most driving is done feet away from another vehicle. If those cars start being replaced by self-driving cars, then the you are safer (system safety x personal safety). The car might make more dubious decisions than you would yourself, but now it has less opportunities for failure due to others driving erratically.
  - dagss 10y ago
    Somebody can crash into you.
duaneb 10y ago
Is crashes/mile the best metric or mistakes/mile that could lead to a crash? I certainly make a TON of mistakes that I can correct before they lead to problems--most of them are mild, like having to break a half second later than I'd like, but i bet you are UNDERestimating the improvement due to self driving cars.
- username223 10y ago
  It's definitely crashes per mile. Unexpected stuff happens all the time on real roads -- black ice, debris, animals, flat tires -- and safety depends upon the driver's or software's ability to deal with them. It's easy for self-driving not to wander into another lane because they're changing the radio, but it's hard for them to deal with situations their designers didn't anticipate.
austinsharp 10y ago
It's not just crashes per mile - it's the severity of the crashes that needs to be considered too. 5 fender benders is a better outcome than 1 horrific wreck that kills someone.