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This isn't meant to be snarky: How does a company like Amazon, that sells damn near anything you could want, vet everything that they sell in an efficient manne

This isn't meant to be snarky: How does a company like Amazon, that sells damn near anything you could want, vet everything that they sell in an efficient manner? Even if you vet everything the first time around, what about updates? Software and hardware devices/gadgets are obvious, but this includes other physical goods that undergo a redesign as well.

FussyZeus 11y ago
They could at least be _trying_. The impression I get is literally anyone can post literally anything and amazon will put their brand above it. They must realize that their brand is highly legitimizing to any product for sale, and you'd think they would be more interested in maintaining that brand. I mean I wouldn't say Amazon is a byword for quality and value, but at the same time I would say most people would put it above, say, ebay and there really doesn't seem to be much of a difference anymore.
- noxToken 11y ago
  There are two, maybe three sides to Amazon. There is the main Amazon site that everyone is familiar with. You go to Amazon, buy the product from Amazon, pay Amazon, then receive a shipment from Amazon via carrier. Next is the Amazon seller side. This has two different sides to it. There is the traditional seller model that is akin to eBay's buy-it-now. You go to Amazon, buy from the seller, pay the seller (via Amazon), then receive the shipment from the seller via carrier. The side to the seller is fulfillment. Sellers have the option to use Amazon as a distributor. It's essentially a hybrid model of the two. You go to Amazon, buy from the seller, pay the seller (via Amazon), then receive the shipment from Amazon (that the seller sent to Amazon) via carrier[1]. My point is that Amazon doesn't exactly put their seal of approval above everything. Just most things. [1]: https://services.amazon.com/fulfillment-by-amazon/how-it-works.htm/ref=asus_fba_snav_how https://services.amazon.com/fulfillment-by-amazon/how-it-wor...
  - vertex-four 11y ago
    The point is that buying a thing off Amazon's site that turns out to be something unexpected or a scam devalues Amazon's brand, whether it's vetted by Amazon or not. Amazon make a point of not separating their vetted stuff from their third-party sellers intentionally. If it gets to the point where it's difficult for me to find products of the quality that I want on Amazon, I'm not going to worry about whether it's Sold By Amazon or not - I'm going to find an alternative.
  - FussyZeus 11y ago
    The seal of approval is implied though. They're carrying it in what is effectively their "store." If you bought something out of a Best Buy and it turned out to be full of malware, you'd go back to Best Buy (justifiably) pissed off, and in my mind Best Buy just throwing up their hands and saying "Well we carry a lot of products, we can't check everything" isn't a very good answer.
    - giaour 11y ago
      Isn't that exactly what best buy said about the superfish-infested laptops they sold?
      - FussyZeus 11y ago
        True that, but we're not talking an installed SSL cert buried in the system, this guy found it by opening the page and clicking view source. Not exactly well hidden.
        giaour 11y ago
        Yeah, all you have to do is order a camera from a third party seller, open the box, power everything on, visit the admin page, view the source, and then Google the domain name used in what looks like an ad tracker at the bottom of the page.
762236 11y ago
You require the seller to put money into escrow to cover bad customer experiences. This of course makes it harder to become a seller, which could also be a bad thing (for example, to incorporate in some countries requires putting $50k in the bank, which effectively stops quite a few entrepreneurs).
anexprogrammer 11y ago
I'm not sure. Perhaps charge a vetting fee until your store established a level of trust. Whilst there are some great 3rd party sellers there's now a huge number of awful ones. Amazon is no longer a site that feels trustworthy. Physical stores have to meet quality and legal requirements on sale of goods and what have you. The retailer can be sued if something isn't as described, or fit for sale. Things can and do get pulled. Mistakes are of course made. Selling a bunch of stuff under the Amazon brand but disclaiming everything (take it up with the seller in China) except their own supply has taken it a little far. They became ebay but somehow still carry the trust "even Amazon".
- saidajigumi 11y ago
  > Physical stores have to meet quality and legal requirements on sale of goods and what have you. Yes, but that's probably the wrong physical analogy. Has a mall ever been sued because one of its stores sold illegal and/or deceptively advertised goods? I seriously doubt it. Now a mall (or Amazon) might kick a seller out if there are problems. This absolutely happens, but it's not very visible, and only occurs after the fact.
  - anexprogrammer 11y ago
    Your analogy helps focus the crux of the problem. How many malls have all their stores branded as the mall? Amazon have been so successful integrating stores into their site that customers don't realise who they're buying from.
    - saidajigumi 11y ago
      I'll argue that the branding issue is a distraction. Shoppers generally understand that Home Depot, Walmart, etc. don't make or comprehensively vet everything they sell, yet they still stand behind the customer experience via returns and support. I find holding Amazon to a higher standard of product vetting as compared to other mass retailers a difficult position to defend.
ChuckMcM 11y ago
Its a good question, is the market maker responsible for the transactions that occur in their market. Probably not but it stains their reputation so its important for them (like it is important for Google's App store) to have some process for collecting feedback on, vetting, and mitigating, bad actors in their marketplace.
WalterBright 11y ago
One way is to have vendors sign a contract guaranteeing that their products do not contain malware. If the product does turn out to contain malware, then Amazon has contractual and legal recourse to recover damages and refund customers their money. Sure, this isn't perfect, and won't help much if the vendor is a shell company, but it does put vendors on notice.
- ikeboy 11y ago
  They do. See https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200277040 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=... and https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=1161302 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=... Illegal or fraudulent listings are expressly forbidden, and the seller agrees to indemnify Amazon for any claim resulting from a breach.
  - WalterBright 11y ago
    That's good to hear!
chris_wot 11y ago
Lenovo did the same thing on at least three different occasions on their laptops. Advertisers on sites like Forbes regularly serve up malware. I guess I'm interested in knowing: when is someone going to be prosecuted over malware creation and distribution?

FussyZeus 11y ago

They could at least be _trying_. The impression I get is literally anyone can post literally anything and amazon will put their brand above it. They must realize that their brand is highly legitimizing to any product for sale, and you'd think they would be more interested in maintaining that brand. I mean I wouldn't say Amazon is a byword for quality and value, but at the same time I would say most people would put it above, say, ebay and there really doesn't seem to be much of a difference anymore.

noxToken 11y ago
There are two, maybe three sides to Amazon. There is the main Amazon site that everyone is familiar with. You go to Amazon, buy the product from Amazon, pay Amazon, then receive a shipment from Amazon via carrier. Next is the Amazon seller side. This has two different sides to it. There is the traditional seller model that is akin to eBay's buy-it-now. You go to Amazon, buy from the seller, pay the seller (via Amazon), then receive the shipment from the seller via carrier. The side to the seller is fulfillment. Sellers have the option to use Amazon as a distributor. It's essentially a hybrid model of the two. You go to Amazon, buy from the seller, pay the seller (via Amazon), then receive the shipment from Amazon (that the seller sent to Amazon) via carrier[1]. My point is that Amazon doesn't exactly put their seal of approval above everything. Just most things. [1]: https://services.amazon.com/fulfillment-by-amazon/how-it-works.htm/ref=asus_fba_snav_how https://services.amazon.com/fulfillment-by-amazon/how-it-wor...
- vertex-four 11y ago
  The point is that buying a thing off Amazon's site that turns out to be something unexpected or a scam devalues Amazon's brand, whether it's vetted by Amazon or not. Amazon make a point of not separating their vetted stuff from their third-party sellers intentionally. If it gets to the point where it's difficult for me to find products of the quality that I want on Amazon, I'm not going to worry about whether it's Sold By Amazon or not - I'm going to find an alternative.
- FussyZeus 11y ago
  The seal of approval is implied though. They're carrying it in what is effectively their "store." If you bought something out of a Best Buy and it turned out to be full of malware, you'd go back to Best Buy (justifiably) pissed off, and in my mind Best Buy just throwing up their hands and saying "Well we carry a lot of products, we can't check everything" isn't a very good answer.
  - giaour 11y ago
    Isn't that exactly what best buy said about the superfish-infested laptops they sold?
    - FussyZeus 11y ago
      True that, but we're not talking an installed SSL cert buried in the system, this guy found it by opening the page and clicking view source. Not exactly well hidden.
      - giaour 11y ago
        Yeah, all you have to do is order a camera from a third party seller, open the box, power everything on, visit the admin page, view the source, and then Google the domain name used in what looks like an ad tracker at the bottom of the page.

762236 11y ago

You require the seller to put money into escrow to cover bad customer experiences. This of course makes it harder to become a seller, which could also be a bad thing (for example, to incorporate in some countries requires putting $50k in the bank, which effectively stops quite a few entrepreneurs).

anexprogrammer 11y ago

I'm not sure. Perhaps charge a vetting fee until your store established a level of trust. Whilst there are some great 3rd party sellers there's now a huge number of awful ones. Amazon is no longer a site that feels trustworthy. Physical stores have to meet quality and legal requirements on sale of goods and what have you. The retailer can be sued if something isn't as described, or fit for sale. Things can and do get pulled. Mistakes are of course made. Selling a bunch of stuff under the Amazon brand but disclaiming everything (take it up with the seller in China) except their own supply has taken it a little far. They became ebay but somehow still carry the trust "even Amazon".

saidajigumi 11y ago
> Physical stores have to meet quality and legal requirements on sale of goods and what have you. Yes, but that's probably the wrong physical analogy. Has a mall ever been sued because one of its stores sold illegal and/or deceptively advertised goods? I seriously doubt it. Now a mall (or Amazon) might kick a seller out if there are problems. This absolutely happens, but it's not very visible, and only occurs after the fact.
- anexprogrammer 11y ago
  Your analogy helps focus the crux of the problem. How many malls have all their stores branded as the mall? Amazon have been so successful integrating stores into their site that customers don't realise who they're buying from.
  - saidajigumi 11y ago
    I'll argue that the branding issue is a distraction. Shoppers generally understand that Home Depot, Walmart, etc. don't make or comprehensively vet everything they sell, yet they still stand behind the customer experience via returns and support. I find holding Amazon to a higher standard of product vetting as compared to other mass retailers a difficult position to defend.

ChuckMcM 11y ago

Its a good question, is the market maker responsible for the transactions that occur in their market. Probably not but it stains their reputation so its important for them (like it is important for Google's App store) to have some process for collecting feedback on, vetting, and mitigating, bad actors in their marketplace.

WalterBright 11y ago

One way is to have vendors sign a contract guaranteeing that their products do not contain malware. If the product does turn out to contain malware, then Amazon has contractual and legal recourse to recover damages and refund customers their money. Sure, this isn't perfect, and won't help much if the vendor is a shell company, but it does put vendors on notice.

ikeboy 11y ago
They do. See https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200277040 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=... and https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=1161302 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=... Illegal or fraudulent listings are expressly forbidden, and the seller agrees to indemnify Amazon for any claim resulting from a breach.
- WalterBright 11y ago
  That's good to hear!

chris_wot 11y ago

Lenovo did the same thing on at least three different occasions on their laptops. Advertisers on sites like Forbes regularly serve up malware. I guess I'm interested in knowing: when is someone going to be prosecuted over malware creation and distribution?