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> So for me the question is why there are still people that enjoy working as if their computers are using a 25 year old developer experience. Because for a lot

> So for me the question is why there are still people that enjoy working as if their computers are using a 25 year old developer experience. Because for a lot of tasks using the mouse is garbage compared to the speed you can get using the keyboard.

cname 11y ago
It's not like you can't use keyboard shortcuts in a modern IDE. And for some tasks using the mouse actually is faster. I think there's some research by Apple (?) that shows this.
- farresito 11y ago
  I definitely don't think it's black or white. If you could have the power of vim (all vim, not just the basics) within an IDE, I'm sure a lot of people would be significantly more productive than only using vim or emacs. I think part of what neovim attemps to do is bringing all vim inside IDEs. That said, I have a feeling that people believe that all vim users use the editor with no plugins or config whatsoever. There are a lot of plugins out there that, while not bringing all an IDE has to offer, provide a lot of what someone would expect from an IDE, and if that is enough, I don't see why someone couldn't be more productive in it than in an IDE.
- kps 11y ago
  > I think there's some research by Apple (?) that shows this. There was, but it was bogus. The subjects were given a paragraph in which every ‘e’ had been replaced by a bar ‘|’ and they had to change them back. But they were only allowed to use the basic Macintosh text box, so they had to use the cursor keys to move to each ‘|’, delete it, and type an ‘e’. Obviously (obvious to vi users, anyway) this is not an efficient way to use the keyboard. :s/|/e/g
  - cname 11y ago
    Yeah, I was wondering if maybe that research didn't apply to power users. Regardless, for me personally, I mostly use the keyboard in an IDE (vim style) but find the mouse is much better for certain things. Even when I use straight vim, I often find that it's easier to visually target something with the mouse versus using search or motion commands.

cname 11y ago

It's not like you can't use keyboard shortcuts in a modern IDE. And for some tasks using the mouse actually is faster. I think there's some research by Apple (?) that shows this.

farresito 11y ago
I definitely don't think it's black or white. If you could have the power of vim (all vim, not just the basics) within an IDE, I'm sure a lot of people would be significantly more productive than only using vim or emacs. I think part of what neovim attemps to do is bringing all vim inside IDEs. That said, I have a feeling that people believe that all vim users use the editor with no plugins or config whatsoever. There are a lot of plugins out there that, while not bringing all an IDE has to offer, provide a lot of what someone would expect from an IDE, and if that is enough, I don't see why someone couldn't be more productive in it than in an IDE.
kps 11y ago
> I think there's some research by Apple (?) that shows this. There was, but it was bogus. The subjects were given a paragraph in which every ‘e’ had been replaced by a bar ‘|’ and they had to change them back. But they were only allowed to use the basic Macintosh text box, so they had to use the cursor keys to move to each ‘|’, delete it, and type an ‘e’. Obviously (obvious to vi users, anyway) this is not an efficient way to use the keyboard. :s/|/e/g
- cname 11y ago
  Yeah, I was wondering if maybe that research didn't apply to power users. Regardless, for me personally, I mostly use the keyboard in an IDE (vim style) but find the mouse is much better for certain things. Even when I use straight vim, I often find that it's easier to visually target something with the mouse versus using search or motion commands.