3 ms·

First of all, the key point of emacs is extensibility and customizability. So as new stuff comes up, e.g. new programming languages, debuggers, file formats, em

by krylon 11y ago

First of all, the key point of emacs is extensibility and customizability. So as new stuff comes up, e.g. new programming languages, debuggers, file formats, emacs can be extended without too much pain to work with them (and often, somebody has already done that for me). Secondly, working mainly as a sysadmin and only sometimes doing some development, I do far more with emacs than coding. I edit configuration files, look at log files, keep a "diary" using org-mode, use it for looking at directories with dired, I run a shell inside it (on Windows, eshell makes my life a lot easier). Having a single, consistent environment across many different languages, tasks, file formats and whatnot, with all my customizations working the same, is valuable to me. If I had to code in Java, I would probably be using eclipse, too or JetBrains' Java IDE, and if I had to code in C#, I would most likely use Visual Studio, but I do not. So I stick with Emacs because it works well for me.

sillysaurus3 11y ago
I'm about to dive into org mode for the first time today. Do you have any tips for learning it? My plan was to open up the manual and start reading, but maybe you found an article or tutorial that helped kickstart your org mode knowledge, so I thought I'd ask. (Apologies if the question is a bit offtopic.)
- weavie 11y ago
  You may find this helpful (http://sachachua.com/blog/2014/01/tips-learning-org-mode-emacs/ http://sachachua.com/blog/2014/01/tips-learning-org-mode-ema...). Also remember org mode is as simple or as complex as you want it to be!
- krylon 11y ago
  I started reading the documentation, which is pretty good, IMHO. I use only a small fraction of org-mode's features, though. There is so much one could do with org-mode, but I don't have enough time to get acquainted with all the features and get into the habit of using them... Not right away at least.
- lemonberry 11y ago
  The Org documentation is a great place to start, but this comment opened my eyes to things I was doing wrong: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11386943 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11386943
- dahart 11y ago
  Maybe learn to type right-handed so you can keep your left hand on TAB. ;)
- tetraodonpuffer 11y ago
  there is a ton of stuff here http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html for me the initial "aha" moment was when I realized I could do an agenda window with multiple customizable horizontal blocks, so at a glance I can see deadlines, projects I am working on and so on Adding to this something like being able to fulltext search across all my org files via org-occur-in-agenda-files is awesome too
Scarblac 11y ago
It's also perfectly possible to use Emacs for 20+ years and not do all that much with the extensibility (some flymake stuff is all I wrote, I think). I use it to edit code simply because I feel at home in it, but I use very, very little of the functionality.
throwanem 11y ago
> the key point of emacs is extensibility and customizability This really can't be overstated, or its value emphasized too strongly, and it goes a lot further than your simple statement makes clear. There is literally nothing in Emacs whose source code is not trivially accessible from the editor itself, via the documentation attached to whatever functions or variables are related to the behavior of interest. (Even the C source code is accessible in this way, if you have it somewhere on your system and have told Emacs where to find it. Or, if you build from source, it will remember on its own.) You can access the documentation for anything, including keybindings, with a single command, and follow a hyperlink from there to the Emacs Lisp or C source in which it's implemented. This reduces the mystery of why and how Emacs does what it does effectively to zero. If you don't understand why your last keystroke did what it did, you can find out. (If you're not sure what your last keystroke was, you can find that out too, because Emacs keeps track and will happily show you with M-x view-lossage.) If you don't understand how it did what it did, you can find that out, too. And if you want to modify what it does, there's a wide variety of ways you can do that, as well. Nothing in Emacs is inaccessible; nothing in Emacs is immutable. The only thing that can stop you, or even slow you down, from making Emacs exactly the tool you want it to be, is your own level of understanding and capability - and if you find it lacking, Emacs is there to help, and its community will cheerfully do likewise. (Oh, and the long-form manuals for everything in Emacs are built into Emacs, too.) I've built several Emacs packages, and released a couple on MELPA to quiet but generally positive receptions - nothing particularly big or world-shattering, just small things to make other Emacs users' lives a little easier, or a little more fun. Almost everything I know about extending Emacs, I've been able to learn from Emacs itself, in the course of seven or so years of using Emacs. I can't think of another editor I've ever used, or even heard of, in which that would be possible. Considering the central position a programmer's primary editor occupies in her professional armamentarium, it's hard to imagine any other editor that'd do even half as much as Emacs to help me get my work done. As you say, if I had to work in Java or C#, I'd probably find myself having to use Eclipse or IntelliJ or Visual Studio or what-have-you. It's not going too far to say that one reason I'm largely unwilling to work in those languages is because I wouldn't easily be able to do so in Emacs. That may strike some people as an astonishing assertion, and a foolish attitude toward choice of language. That's reasonable enough, but I misdoubt most experienced Emacs users would find themselves feeling much the same way.

by krylon 11y ago

sillysaurus3 11y ago

I'm about to dive into org mode for the first time today. Do you have any tips for learning it? My plan was to open up the manual and start reading, but maybe you found an article or tutorial that helped kickstart your org mode knowledge, so I thought I'd ask. (Apologies if the question is a bit offtopic.)

weavie 11y ago
You may find this helpful (http://sachachua.com/blog/2014/01/tips-learning-org-mode-emacs/ http://sachachua.com/blog/2014/01/tips-learning-org-mode-ema...). Also remember org mode is as simple or as complex as you want it to be!
krylon 11y ago
I started reading the documentation, which is pretty good, IMHO. I use only a small fraction of org-mode's features, though. There is so much one could do with org-mode, but I don't have enough time to get acquainted with all the features and get into the habit of using them... Not right away at least.
lemonberry 11y ago
The Org documentation is a great place to start, but this comment opened my eyes to things I was doing wrong: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11386943 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11386943
dahart 11y ago
Maybe learn to type right-handed so you can keep your left hand on TAB. ;)
tetraodonpuffer 11y ago
there is a ton of stuff here http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html for me the initial "aha" moment was when I realized I could do an agenda window with multiple customizable horizontal blocks, so at a glance I can see deadlines, projects I am working on and so on Adding to this something like being able to fulltext search across all my org files via org-occur-in-agenda-files is awesome too

Scarblac 11y ago

It's also perfectly possible to use Emacs for 20+ years and not do all that much with the extensibility (some flymake stuff is all I wrote, I think). I use it to edit code simply because I feel at home in it, but I use very, very little of the functionality.

throwanem 11y ago

> the key point of emacs is extensibility and customizability This really can't be overstated, or its value emphasized too strongly, and it goes a lot further than your simple statement makes clear. There is literally nothing in Emacs whose source code is not trivially accessible from the editor itself, via the documentation attached to whatever functions or variables are related to the behavior of interest. (Even the C source code is accessible in this way, if you have it somewhere on your system and have told Emacs where to find it. Or, if you build from source, it will remember on its own.) You can access the documentation for anything, including keybindings, with a single command, and follow a hyperlink from there to the Emacs Lisp or C source in which it's implemented. This reduces the mystery of why and how Emacs does what it does effectively to zero. If you don't understand why your last keystroke did what it did, you can find out. (If you're not sure what your last keystroke was, you can find that out too, because Emacs keeps track and will happily show you with M-x view-lossage.) If you don't understand how it did what it did, you can find that out, too. And if you want to modify what it does, there's a wide variety of ways you can do that, as well. Nothing in Emacs is inaccessible; nothing in Emacs is immutable. The only thing that can stop you, or even slow you down, from making Emacs exactly the tool you want it to be, is your own level of understanding and capability - and if you find it lacking, Emacs is there to help, and its community will cheerfully do likewise. (Oh, and the long-form manuals for everything in Emacs are built into Emacs, too.) I've built several Emacs packages, and released a couple on MELPA to quiet but generally positive receptions - nothing particularly big or world-shattering, just small things to make other Emacs users' lives a little easier, or a little more fun. Almost everything I know about extending Emacs, I've been able to learn from Emacs itself, in the course of seven or so years of using Emacs. I can't think of another editor I've ever used, or even heard of, in which that would be possible. Considering the central position a programmer's primary editor occupies in her professional armamentarium, it's hard to imagine any other editor that'd do even half as much as Emacs to help me get my work done. As you say, if I had to work in Java or C#, I'd probably find myself having to use Eclipse or IntelliJ or Visual Studio or what-have-you. It's not going too far to say that one reason I'm largely unwilling to work in those languages is because I wouldn't easily be able to do so in Emacs. That may strike some people as an astonishing assertion, and a foolish attitude toward choice of language. That's reasonable enough, but I misdoubt most experienced Emacs users would find themselves feeling much the same way.