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ITT: Hacker news believing that sexism isn't a big deal or otherwise downplaying it's role. It's like watching people who have never had a mental illness wonder

by Joof 11y ago

ITT: Hacker news believing that sexism isn't a big deal or otherwise downplaying it's role. It's like watching people who have never had a mental illness wonder why it's a big deal. For any normal feeling, assume it's greater magnitude and a peergroup doesn't exist for support. Sexism isn't necessarily intentional (socially inexperienced college guys hitting on the only girls in their peergroup when they are unwanted). However; it exists and is very measurable. The least we can do is acknowledge it, even if we don't know what to do about it. I'm not sure about most of you men, but I happen to like having women around. If we can't encourage more to work with us, we can at least do our best to be accepting to the people we already work with. Edit: We do have great, data-backed responses to all posts as always. Its a difficult problem to understand because most people won't experience it and are probably tired of being reminded about.

mongol 11y ago
>socially inexperienced college guys hitting on the only girls in their peergroup when they are unwanted What is sexist about that? Or do I misunderstand you? Not native English speaker...
- Joof 11y ago
  Largely the magnitude. That guy that got her a shirt with his name on it for example. It probably wouldnt be a problem if there was a more even split. When there is a 10:1 ratio (at my school this was true), literally every guy will be hitting on those girls. In this case, it's more the environment that is the problem than the individual act.
  - mongol 11y ago
    Ok. I wasn't thinking about her experience, but your description (the sentence I quoted) applied generally. To me, that is not a symptom of prejudice or discrimination. Edit:clarification
    - Joof 11y ago
      Sorry, I should make it more clear that it is different from the norm in most environments. Defining discrimination is somewhat difficult. As an example: in America, crack cocaine is considered to be more potent than regular cocaine and punished much more harshly (1:100 ratio at one point in time). Crack is also used much more often by blacks than any other race. As a result, far more black people are in jail for long periods of time for drug charges. This would be true even if police treated everyone equally. Is the law racist? It's generally agreed upon by most experts that it is. In addition, very few black people in America are interested in becoming a police officer. Is this a product of racism? I'd say, yes. Unfortunately, this means that many officers don't represent their peers, which reinforces the racism itself. There is a huge asymmetry in men:women joining computer science and it creates a more difficult environment for women. This most likely both a symptom and cause of sexism.
- hackuser 11y ago
  This might help: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11485689 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11485689
  - mongol 11y ago
    Yes but that is about harassment. I don't think sexism is the same thing.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
dang 11y ago
> ITT: Hacker news believing that sexism isn't a big deal It would be better not to anthropomorphize Hacker News. You're as much a part of it as anyone, after all. When people diss Hacker News for 'believing' and 'saying' things, it's usually as a rhetorical device—the opposing 'opinion' of pseudo-Hacker-News makes oneself the underdog. But these rhetorical generalizations are nearly always wrong, and they worsen the divisions in the community.
- Joof 11y ago
  That's an interesting view and most probably correct. I was surprised that the first posts I saw appeared to downplay the issue and also use reddit quite frequently, which carries over sometimes. Should I rephrase it or simply post an argument that supports her if my ultimate goal is changing the opinions of people who don't recognize the issue. I find social issues fairly important; years ago I had hoped that technology alone could help, but lately I think that a much broader view is required. If I could communicate more effectively, it would go a long way towards having a larger impact.

by Joof 11y ago

mongol 11y ago

>socially inexperienced college guys hitting on the only girls in their peergroup when they are unwanted What is sexist about that? Or do I misunderstand you? Not native English speaker...

Joof 11y ago
Largely the magnitude. That guy that got her a shirt with his name on it for example. It probably wouldnt be a problem if there was a more even split. When there is a 10:1 ratio (at my school this was true), literally every guy will be hitting on those girls. In this case, it's more the environment that is the problem than the individual act.
- mongol 11y ago
  Ok. I wasn't thinking about her experience, but your description (the sentence I quoted) applied generally. To me, that is not a symptom of prejudice or discrimination. Edit:clarification
  - Joof 11y ago
    Sorry, I should make it more clear that it is different from the norm in most environments. Defining discrimination is somewhat difficult. As an example: in America, crack cocaine is considered to be more potent than regular cocaine and punished much more harshly (1:100 ratio at one point in time). Crack is also used much more often by blacks than any other race. As a result, far more black people are in jail for long periods of time for drug charges. This would be true even if police treated everyone equally. Is the law racist? It's generally agreed upon by most experts that it is. In addition, very few black people in America are interested in becoming a police officer. Is this a product of racism? I'd say, yes. Unfortunately, this means that many officers don't represent their peers, which reinforces the racism itself. There is a huge asymmetry in men:women joining computer science and it creates a more difficult environment for women. This most likely both a symptom and cause of sexism.
hackuser 11y ago
This might help: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11485689 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11485689
- mongol 11y ago
  Yes but that is about harassment. I don't think sexism is the same thing.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

dang 11y ago

> ITT: Hacker news believing that sexism isn't a big deal It would be better not to anthropomorphize Hacker News. You're as much a part of it as anyone, after all. When people diss Hacker News for 'believing' and 'saying' things, it's usually as a rhetorical device—the opposing 'opinion' of pseudo-Hacker-News makes oneself the underdog. But these rhetorical generalizations are nearly always wrong, and they worsen the divisions in the community.

Joof 11y ago
That's an interesting view and most probably correct. I was surprised that the first posts I saw appeared to downplay the issue and also use reddit quite frequently, which carries over sometimes. Should I rephrase it or simply post an argument that supports her if my ultimate goal is changing the opinions of people who don't recognize the issue. I find social issues fairly important; years ago I had hoped that technology alone could help, but lately I think that a much broader view is required. If I could communicate more effectively, it would go a long way towards having a larger impact.