5 ms·

She didn't think she was good enough to take up Comp Sci because the guys had a lot of bluster and seem to 'get things' quicker than her... Is that sexism?

meric 11y ago
It looks like she hadn't been in many competitive environments vis-a-vis against men, so her first experiences were quite intimidating because she didn't understand their behaviour. It's less common for women to have a lot of bluster and be overtly confident in competition.
littlegreenb18 11y ago
It sure doesn't sound like it. It's hard to blame someone else for your problems just because they have more self esteem than you. Regardless of whether it's deserved.
KaiserPro 11y ago
[edit, in this case I'd suggest that...]Sexism is a side effect of engineers being utter arseholes. Fortunately the toxic "bow down to my magisterial knowledge, any person that dares to ask questions shall be cast into apostasy" isn't pervasive in any of the companies I work. Having a daughter, it really shows in stark relief that girls are not allowed to be leaders, they are just bossy little [insert word here]. Women in meetings have to steep themselves in business passive to get an idea across, which is both fucking sad and annoying in equal terms. As for watching nerdy bro's hit on women, if fucking pathetic. Iterative a/b tests of single chatup lines do not work on the same person. Its a shame you weren't confident of your own opinion enough to use a real account.
- ae_keji 11y ago
  Is sexism a side effect of engineers being assholes or is engineers being assholes a problem because sexism exists so much in the first place? It's very easy to blame a company or a subculture as being sexist, but no one thinks about how the entirety of Western society is still damn sexist. The fact that makeup exists, for example. Women are universally expected to be subordinate and seen before heard. Women keep getting pushed around because that's what our social structure expects them to do. Engineers not being assholes isn't going to solve the problem. Women being assholes, and everyone getting used to that, just might.
  - KaiserPro 11y ago
    I broadly agree here, but I'd suggest that its more nuanced than 'western culture' sexism in britian is different to in america. However, I work in tech, so I can't comment on other areas. But I'd love engineers to stop being arseholes, it make life much easer, and we'd get more things done.
- notmything 11y ago
  Any bossy child is a bossy little [insert word here], not just girls. I'm not familiar with work environments where women have to 'steep themselves in business passive'. My wife was never like that when I met her nor are most of the women I've worked with. Please show me where all these passive women are at work, might make my life easier...
ae_keji 11y ago
There's no one you can really blame it on, but I think her thinking that is a result of the fact that we live in a very sexist society. Women are expected to grow up as essential gears in that machine, keeping each other in check and never fumble, god forbid someone would see that. I think it's present everywhere, but we're seeing it blatantly with women in technology because it's such a maverick industry, and that very tenacity which makes it successful is a trait that is so strongly frowned upon for women in our society to have. Beats me on how to fix that. You can't just tell someone that no one cares, or that their worst critic is themself, when their reality is structured around believing elsewise.

meric 11y ago

It looks like she hadn't been in many competitive environments vis-a-vis against men, so her first experiences were quite intimidating because she didn't understand their behaviour. It's less common for women to have a lot of bluster and be overtly confident in competition.

littlegreenb18 11y ago

It sure doesn't sound like it. It's hard to blame someone else for your problems just because they have more self esteem than you. Regardless of whether it's deserved.

KaiserPro 11y ago

[edit, in this case I'd suggest that...]Sexism is a side effect of engineers being utter arseholes. Fortunately the toxic "bow down to my magisterial knowledge, any person that dares to ask questions shall be cast into apostasy" isn't pervasive in any of the companies I work. Having a daughter, it really shows in stark relief that girls are not allowed to be leaders, they are just bossy little [insert word here]. Women in meetings have to steep themselves in business passive to get an idea across, which is both fucking sad and annoying in equal terms. As for watching nerdy bro's hit on women, if fucking pathetic. Iterative a/b tests of single chatup lines do not work on the same person. Its a shame you weren't confident of your own opinion enough to use a real account.

ae_keji 11y ago
Is sexism a side effect of engineers being assholes or is engineers being assholes a problem because sexism exists so much in the first place? It's very easy to blame a company or a subculture as being sexist, but no one thinks about how the entirety of Western society is still damn sexist. The fact that makeup exists, for example. Women are universally expected to be subordinate and seen before heard. Women keep getting pushed around because that's what our social structure expects them to do. Engineers not being assholes isn't going to solve the problem. Women being assholes, and everyone getting used to that, just might.
- KaiserPro 11y ago
  I broadly agree here, but I'd suggest that its more nuanced than 'western culture' sexism in britian is different to in america. However, I work in tech, so I can't comment on other areas. But I'd love engineers to stop being arseholes, it make life much easer, and we'd get more things done.
notmything 11y ago
Any bossy child is a bossy little [insert word here], not just girls. I'm not familiar with work environments where women have to 'steep themselves in business passive'. My wife was never like that when I met her nor are most of the women I've worked with. Please show me where all these passive women are at work, might make my life easier...

ae_keji 11y ago

There's no one you can really blame it on, but I think her thinking that is a result of the fact that we live in a very sexist society. Women are expected to grow up as essential gears in that machine, keeping each other in check and never fumble, god forbid someone would see that. I think it's present everywhere, but we're seeing it blatantly with women in technology because it's such a maverick industry, and that very tenacity which makes it successful is a trait that is so strongly frowned upon for women in our society to have. Beats me on how to fix that. You can't just tell someone that no one cares, or that their worst critic is themself, when their reality is structured around believing elsewise.