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I do not intend this to offend, I truly would like to share some constructive criticism on this particular comment you've shared. First, I totally understand h

I do not intend this to offend, I truly would like to share some constructive criticism on this particular comment you've shared. First, I totally understand how it can feel to share opinions that frequently are not given the seriousness that you feel they deserve, where it seems people may dismiss what you're saying out of hand or disagree without engaging what you're saying at all. The frustration of "spitting into the wind" in this way is totally valid. However, I would invite you to leave off ending your comments with language decrying or dismissing those who disagree with you. As I was reading you comment, up to the end I really was thinking "I get the sense that the internet did change quite a lot, I would like to learn more about the reasons others may disagree or why others think it may not apply." But the moment I reached where you call what I was wondering about a "yawn inducing knee-jerk rebuttal" I completely moved from curious to hurt. I may very well have questions about what you've shared (and indeed, I do!) but disgruntled dismissal of alternative viewpoints makes me feel as though asking to learn more would yield only contemptuous or belittling comments. I suspect you'll convince many more people if you leave off the needling language.

williamcotton 11y ago
I'm not going to convince anyone of anything on HackerNews. I'm up against the entire California Ideology on this forum. Every time you guys go to a conference or talk with a coworker or your boss this philosophy is being reinforced. I can't do shit but sit here and throw darts. It's really the only effective course of action. Sorry if it stings a little. If you actually are interested, I've previously said everything I ever need to say about these issues and if you read those two books you'll immediately understand what I'm talking about. It's just too much work to school someone on a fucking internet forum. I'm done. I don't have the patience. This is the exact opposite of preaching to the choir. Most people on these forums have been leading successful lives by toeing the party line in the tech industry. You all already think you know everything worth knowing and that the Internet has made the pre-networked world completely irrelevant. It is such a strongly reinforced ideology paired with addictions to touch screen devices that control your thoughts and actions so completely you can't seem to notice how ignorant and arrogant you've all become. I'm here to just plain tell you that you're wrong. I don't have the resources to roll back the brainwashing of 100,000 techies. I can't sit here and be your personal psychologists and hold your hands while I explain the fundamentals of intellectual property in a market economy. I'm up against 25 years of raging idiots screaming about the RIAA and the MPAA. I know this ideology well because I used to be a true believer. I figured out this was bullshit on my own, just by leading life, learning about love, and finding myself a real community, not some digital hideout for run-away teenagers like HackerNews and Reddit. Again, I used to be that, I used to be that kid sitting at home in small town American feeling really left out and finding a group of other rejects on IRC and Slashdot and the open source "community". So you just keep on thinking that "The Internet has changed everything!" and keep on ignorantly disrupting the entire known universe with your hair-brained schemes, and I'll sit here on the sidelines and call you all a bunch of jackasses, how's that? Also, I'm trying to get dang's attention because I really want to have a serious sit down talk with the dude in person but I've probably scared him away by cursing like a sailor and talking about hanging out with rednecks in a honky tonks bar. If I make a stink he normally shows up. So dang, buddy, let's get coffee in San Francisco sometime soon. I promise to be polite. Everyone, go listen to some Merle Haggard and actually try and listen instead of just talk talk talk talk talking the fuck all the time on your dumb ass devices.
- CuriousSkeptic 11y ago
  Well, I concede that HN is not the forum for in depth debate. I do think your image of who visits this forum is a bit narrow though. Two data points speaking against it, you, and me. In any case if you'd like an in depth economic analysis of how the Internet actually did change everything that might challenge your view you might appreciate The Wealth of Networks: How Social Production Transforms Markets and Freedom by Yochai Bekler. http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/wealth_of_networks/Main_Page http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/wealth_of_networks/Main_Page
  - williamcotton 11y ago
    I counter with some pop science: http://www.inc.com/john-boitnott/social-media-addiction-the-productivity-killer.html http://www.inc.com/john-boitnott/social-media-addiction-the-... http://ericadhawan.com/social-media-hurts-productivity/ http://ericadhawan.com/social-media-hurts-productivity/ http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/06/upshot/silicon-valley-has-not-saved-us-from-a-productivity-slowdown.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/06/upshot/silicon-valley-has-... As well as some economic studies: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/the-new-brookings-paper-on-the-productivity-slowdown.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/the... http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/productivity-slowdown-or-measurement-problem.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/pro... http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/how-much-are-free-apps-worth.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/how... Someone had better teach these techies some basic finance, accounting and economics at some point. Right now when someone posts something to Facebook it's basically a dead end for further economic potential. Compare this to how the finances of the book trade worked in the 19th century and it appears as if we're headed backwards. I blame a certain kind of arrogance in Silicon Valley for thinking that "information just has to be free now"... if anyone opened up their history books they'd realize that the printing press made the distribution costs of information comparatively cheaper than the Internet. People used to make copies by hand! Then it took us a few hundred years to fully invent intellectual property as a response to the issues created by cheap copies. All that's happened as a result of the Internet is that we now have even cheaper copiers, but there's still a cost. Facebook's operation costs are in the billions of dollars a year. That's hardly "free information". Everyone needs to realize that Clay Shirkey and CmdrTaco were full of shit so we can move on with our lives. It's about time that some adults with some conservative tendencies as well as a functional and practical understanding of the Internet stepped in and showed these techies a thing or to about how the world really works when they're not just spending daddy VC's money.

williamcotton 11y ago

I'm not going to convince anyone of anything on HackerNews. I'm up against the entire California Ideology on this forum. Every time you guys go to a conference or talk with a coworker or your boss this philosophy is being reinforced. I can't do shit but sit here and throw darts. It's really the only effective course of action. Sorry if it stings a little. If you actually are interested, I've previously said everything I ever need to say about these issues and if you read those two books you'll immediately understand what I'm talking about. It's just too much work to school someone on a fucking internet forum. I'm done. I don't have the patience. This is the exact opposite of preaching to the choir. Most people on these forums have been leading successful lives by toeing the party line in the tech industry. You all already think you know everything worth knowing and that the Internet has made the pre-networked world completely irrelevant. It is such a strongly reinforced ideology paired with addictions to touch screen devices that control your thoughts and actions so completely you can't seem to notice how ignorant and arrogant you've all become. I'm here to just plain tell you that you're wrong. I don't have the resources to roll back the brainwashing of 100,000 techies. I can't sit here and be your personal psychologists and hold your hands while I explain the fundamentals of intellectual property in a market economy. I'm up against 25 years of raging idiots screaming about the RIAA and the MPAA. I know this ideology well because I used to be a true believer. I figured out this was bullshit on my own, just by leading life, learning about love, and finding myself a real community, not some digital hideout for run-away teenagers like HackerNews and Reddit. Again, I used to be that, I used to be that kid sitting at home in small town American feeling really left out and finding a group of other rejects on IRC and Slashdot and the open source "community". So you just keep on thinking that "The Internet has changed everything!" and keep on ignorantly disrupting the entire known universe with your hair-brained schemes, and I'll sit here on the sidelines and call you all a bunch of jackasses, how's that? Also, I'm trying to get dang's attention because I really want to have a serious sit down talk with the dude in person but I've probably scared him away by cursing like a sailor and talking about hanging out with rednecks in a honky tonks bar. If I make a stink he normally shows up. So dang, buddy, let's get coffee in San Francisco sometime soon. I promise to be polite. Everyone, go listen to some Merle Haggard and actually try and listen instead of just talk talk talk talk talking the fuck all the time on your dumb ass devices.

CuriousSkeptic 11y ago
Well, I concede that HN is not the forum for in depth debate. I do think your image of who visits this forum is a bit narrow though. Two data points speaking against it, you, and me. In any case if you'd like an in depth economic analysis of how the Internet actually did change everything that might challenge your view you might appreciate The Wealth of Networks: How Social Production Transforms Markets and Freedom by Yochai Bekler. http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/wealth_of_networks/Main_Page http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/wealth_of_networks/Main_Page
- williamcotton 11y ago
  I counter with some pop science: http://www.inc.com/john-boitnott/social-media-addiction-the-productivity-killer.html http://www.inc.com/john-boitnott/social-media-addiction-the-... http://ericadhawan.com/social-media-hurts-productivity/ http://ericadhawan.com/social-media-hurts-productivity/ http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/06/upshot/silicon-valley-has-not-saved-us-from-a-productivity-slowdown.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/06/upshot/silicon-valley-has-... As well as some economic studies: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/the-new-brookings-paper-on-the-productivity-slowdown.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/the... http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/productivity-slowdown-or-measurement-problem.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/pro... http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/how-much-are-free-apps-worth.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/how... Someone had better teach these techies some basic finance, accounting and economics at some point. Right now when someone posts something to Facebook it's basically a dead end for further economic potential. Compare this to how the finances of the book trade worked in the 19th century and it appears as if we're headed backwards. I blame a certain kind of arrogance in Silicon Valley for thinking that "information just has to be free now"... if anyone opened up their history books they'd realize that the printing press made the distribution costs of information comparatively cheaper than the Internet. People used to make copies by hand! Then it took us a few hundred years to fully invent intellectual property as a response to the issues created by cheap copies. All that's happened as a result of the Internet is that we now have even cheaper copiers, but there's still a cost. Facebook's operation costs are in the billions of dollars a year. That's hardly "free information". Everyone needs to realize that Clay Shirkey and CmdrTaco were full of shit so we can move on with our lives. It's about time that some adults with some conservative tendencies as well as a functional and practical understanding of the Internet stepped in and showed these techies a thing or to about how the world really works when they're not just spending daddy VC's money.