4 ms·

> I believe solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, etc, can provide the power we need in this world. Well, it hasn't. Countries like Germany and Japan which have move

> I believe solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, etc, can provide the power we need in this world. Well, it hasn't. Countries like Germany and Japan which have moved away from nuclear are now sipping Russian gas and oil, all of which is controlled by a territory hungry autocrat who uses his pipelines for political control. This is better than running your own nuclear power and having energy autonomy? Polluting the air with burned hydrocarbons? Ask Ukraine how much it enjoys not having energy autonomy. We keep coming to this argument, and no one seems to listen. Right now, the rational alternative to nuclear is hydrocarbons, not renewables. Renewables are many decades away from providing this as energy density, storage technology, and cost are not here yet.

zardo 11y ago
Unfortunately, commercial scale fail-safe molten salt reactors are also decades away because we haven't invested in making them a reality.
- at-fates-hands 11y ago
  This is probably the biggest issue hampering renewable energy. The investment just isn't there, and hasn't been there - across the board, for decades. The ironic thing is when we do actually have investment, it's under the guise of cronyism and political favors. How many solar companies did the government give BILLIONS to, only to have them go out of business less than a year later, leaving the tax payers on the hook? At last count it was 36: http://nation.foxnews.com/obama/2012/10/20/list-36-obama-s-taxpayer-funded-green-energy-failures http://nation.foxnews.com/obama/2012/10/20/list-36-obama-s-t... The other thing we need to consider is making renewable energy affordable. If you can get cheap energy, it would solve some really huge problems with global poverty. As it sits right now, no renewable energy is affordable. I've been keeping an eye on solar for years. Last year when I checked on a small solar array for my house, the layout was around 30K and the ROI was ten years. No way does that work for low income families who could really use this type of renewable energy.
  - codingdave 11y ago
    True, cost is a factor -- But that 30K number is if you purchase your own panels and equipment, and hire out all the labor. (FWIW, I spent about 18K on a 7kw system 18 months ago.) Also, that 10 year ROI assumes a linear progression of electric costs, which is speculative, and could go either way... but with the way trends are going, I wouldn't bet on coal coming back as a primary fuel source if fracking either gets banned, or in a couple years when the faster depletion of horizontal wells becomes more of a factor. On the other hand, there are also multiple companies now offering lease programs that don't require a large initial payment. Pros/cons to that, as with everything. But the other big problem is regulatory - if you want a grid tie-in (which almost all the leasing options require), cities often have a maximum amount of solar they will allow. And there are valid engineering reasons for this, but the real blocker to wide adoption of solar on single family residences, in the long term, will not be the cost, but the engineering of the grids, and the resulting regulations.
    - AstralStorm 11y ago
      Don't forget about power storage facilities in the discussion of the grid design. The storage facilities to make use of any large quantity of solar power would have to be massive... Wind power, yet more massive due to long term lulls in supply.
      - ohyes 11y ago
        ... And wait for that storage facility to catch fire. A multi-megawatt lithium ion battery fire would be pretty horrific.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
ju-st 11y ago
>While nuclear's power production decreased only slightly when comparing 2014 to 2013, electricity generated from brown coal, hard coal and gas-fired power plants significantly decreased by 3%, 9.5% and 13.8%, respectively.[1] >Germany, the largest exporter of electricity with 10% of the overall exports, reinforced its position as a net exporter by 20% during the year 2010[4] >The share of renewable electricity increased substituting the nuclear power.[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_German...
- drzaiusapelord 11y ago
  Germany doesnt use much coal at all, it burns mineral and natural gas: While the whole of the EU imported 53.4 percent of its energy consumption in 2014, Germany’s dependency was even higher with an import share of 61.4 percent – only slightly below the previous year’s all-time high of 62.6 percent. Germany needs to import nearly 90% of the gas it consumes. Germany’s exit from nuclear power and low wholesale electricity prices have boosted the comparatively cheap generation of electricity from coal, leading to a marked increase in imports of hard coal. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-dependence-imported-fossil-fuels https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-dependen...

zardo 11y ago

Unfortunately, commercial scale fail-safe molten salt reactors are also decades away because we haven't invested in making them a reality.

at-fates-hands 11y ago
This is probably the biggest issue hampering renewable energy. The investment just isn't there, and hasn't been there - across the board, for decades. The ironic thing is when we do actually have investment, it's under the guise of cronyism and political favors. How many solar companies did the government give BILLIONS to, only to have them go out of business less than a year later, leaving the tax payers on the hook? At last count it was 36: http://nation.foxnews.com/obama/2012/10/20/list-36-obama-s-taxpayer-funded-green-energy-failures http://nation.foxnews.com/obama/2012/10/20/list-36-obama-s-t... The other thing we need to consider is making renewable energy affordable. If you can get cheap energy, it would solve some really huge problems with global poverty. As it sits right now, no renewable energy is affordable. I've been keeping an eye on solar for years. Last year when I checked on a small solar array for my house, the layout was around 30K and the ROI was ten years. No way does that work for low income families who could really use this type of renewable energy.
- codingdave 11y ago
  True, cost is a factor -- But that 30K number is if you purchase your own panels and equipment, and hire out all the labor. (FWIW, I spent about 18K on a 7kw system 18 months ago.) Also, that 10 year ROI assumes a linear progression of electric costs, which is speculative, and could go either way... but with the way trends are going, I wouldn't bet on coal coming back as a primary fuel source if fracking either gets banned, or in a couple years when the faster depletion of horizontal wells becomes more of a factor. On the other hand, there are also multiple companies now offering lease programs that don't require a large initial payment. Pros/cons to that, as with everything. But the other big problem is regulatory - if you want a grid tie-in (which almost all the leasing options require), cities often have a maximum amount of solar they will allow. And there are valid engineering reasons for this, but the real blocker to wide adoption of solar on single family residences, in the long term, will not be the cost, but the engineering of the grids, and the resulting regulations.
  - AstralStorm 11y ago
    Don't forget about power storage facilities in the discussion of the grid design. The storage facilities to make use of any large quantity of solar power would have to be massive... Wind power, yet more massive due to long term lulls in supply.
    - ohyes 11y ago
      ... And wait for that storage facility to catch fire. A multi-megawatt lithium ion battery fire would be pretty horrific.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

ju-st 11y ago

>While nuclear's power production decreased only slightly when comparing 2014 to 2013, electricity generated from brown coal, hard coal and gas-fired power plants significantly decreased by 3%, 9.5% and 13.8%, respectively.[1] >Germany, the largest exporter of electricity with 10% of the overall exports, reinforced its position as a net exporter by 20% during the year 2010[4] >The share of renewable electricity increased substituting the nuclear power.[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_German...

drzaiusapelord 11y ago
Germany doesnt use much coal at all, it burns mineral and natural gas: While the whole of the EU imported 53.4 percent of its energy consumption in 2014, Germany’s dependency was even higher with an import share of 61.4 percent – only slightly below the previous year’s all-time high of 62.6 percent. Germany needs to import nearly 90% of the gas it consumes. Germany’s exit from nuclear power and low wholesale electricity prices have boosted the comparatively cheap generation of electricity from coal, leading to a marked increase in imports of hard coal. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-dependence-imported-fossil-fuels https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-dependen...