5 ms·

As a non-hit artist, married to a non-hit artist, and who's produced a bevy of non-hit artists, I can say that roughly none of a non-hit artist's income is like

As a non-hit artist, married to a non-hit artist, and who's produced a bevy of non-hit artists, I can say that roughly none of a non-hit artist's income is likely to come from Pandora / Pandora discovery. At $0.0001/stream typical, Pandora itself cannot ever add up to meaningful income for a non-hit artist. Most of the income for the non-hit artist will come from that core group of committed fans who buy everything the artist makes, contribute to kickstarters, and shows up at all the concerts. As a discovery tool Pandora's value is debatable. My anecdotal experience is that of all the various ways that I and other artists I know have made fans, Pandora was never one. YMMV. (Update: I just found a bit a data that states that Pandora accounts for ~10% of new music discovery which is a lot better than I would have guessed.)

S_A_P 11y ago
You wouldnt happen to be the Rip Rowan of ProRec.com would you? miss that site...
- riprowan 11y ago
  aw shucks
specialist 11y ago
As a discovery tool Pandora's value is debatable. Curation works better than recommenders. To my great surprise, I continue to discover new acts, music thru the radio. Just like when I was kid. KBCS.fm and KEXP.org have great speciality shows. They also do a good job of posting their play lists, streaming archives, linking to artists, promoting upcoming shows, etc. I've rarely discovered new stuff from a recommender (Pandora, last.fm, whatever). Now I don't even bother. But I do rediscover music (from my youth) via YouTube. Which is a delight. If mining radio playlists stops working for me, I'd be willing to try something like Apple Beat's notion.
- riprowan 11y ago
  Well it turns out that you aren't alone. Radio is still the most important music discovery media: https://d28wbuch0jlv7v.cloudfront.net/images/infografik/normal/chartoftheday_2077_Music_discovery_n.jpg https://d28wbuch0jlv7v.cloudfront.net/images/infografik/norm.... Notably, that chart puts Pandora discovery at a meaningful 10%.
- voltagex_ 11y ago
  I've had the opposite experience from you. I don't listen to much broadcast radio any more. I used to use Last.FM's recommender to find new bands to listen to, now I just use Spotify - after a few weeks the "Discover Weekly" playlist is spot on, even with a very eclectic taste in music (http://www.last.fm/user/voltagex/library/tracks?date_preset=LAST_180_DAYS http://www.last.fm/user/voltagex/library/tracks?date_preset=...). I've discovered entire genres via Spotify and last.fm and gone to several live events that I wouldn't have even known about without services like these.
  - specialist 11y ago
    Thank you for sharing your favorites! Aside: I very much want to use scrobble (or equiv) to consolidate all my faves. It's on my ever growing to do list.
girvo 11y ago
Back when I had my radio show here in Brisbane, I used Pandora specifically for discovery for music... but that's a pretty particular use-case heh.
bmm6o 11y ago
> I just found a bit a data that states that Pandora accounts for ~10% of new music discovery which is a lot better than I would have guessed To me this says more about the weakness of the alternatives than about the strength of Pandora. At least it's possible to hear new music on Pandora. It's sad what a lowest common denominator echo chamber terrestrial radio has become.
- riprowan 11y ago
  In the USA, the overwhelming majority of terrestrial radio is owned by ~3 corporate behemoths with profit-sharing arrangements with the Big Three labels and their thousands of subsidiaries. What used to be decentralized to the local market level is now mostly inaccessible to unsigned / independent artists. Instead radio is just a distribution network for the major labels and their subs. Consider this typical everyday sort of press release we see in the industry all the time these days: http://www.musicrow.com/2014/03/clear-channel-bbr-music-group-reach-revenue-sharing-deal/ http://www.musicrow.com/2014/03/clear-channel-bbr-music-grou... Payola: Payola, in the music industry, is the illegal practice of payment or other inducement by record companies for the broadcast of recordings on commercial radio in which the song is presented as being part of the normal day's broadcast. Under U.S. law, 47 U.S.C. § 317, a radio station can play a specific song in exchange for money, but this must be disclosed on the air as being sponsored airtime, and that play of the song should not be counted as a "regular airplay". Revenue sharing agreements? SMH. Imagine you're an independent artist. That's the hurdle you have to be able to cross in order to get access to discovery platforms. This includes access to choice Spotify or YouTube playlists, satellite and Internet radio, and other conventional discovery mechanisms.
SeanLuke 11y ago
> (Update: I just found a bit a data that states that Pandora accounts for ~10% of new music discovery which is a lot better than I would have guessed.) This sounds like a version of Russell and Norvig's Mengitis question. The probability you have a stiff neck if you have meningitis is 70%. But what is the probability that you have meningitis if you have a stiff neck? Keep in mind that Meningitis is 1/50,000 cases but stiff necks are 1/100 cases. Answer: 0.14%, quite small. Similarly, the probability that you are on Pandora if you are discovered is 1/10. But what is the probability that you are discovered if you're on Pandora? Likely very, very, very small.
- riprowan 11y ago
  > the probability that you are on Pandora if you are discovered is 1/10. But what is the probability that you are discovered if you're on Pandora? Likely very, very, very small. I'm not sure that's what the analysis is saying. I think the analysis is saying, "among discoverers, when discovery occurred, the discoverer was using [CHANNEL] with X% probability".
kedean 11y ago
Pandora is probably my best mode of music discovery these days, above Spotify and social suggestions. If you actively seek out more from the newer artists it suggests, you'll get good results. If you go there with a genre in mind where you already know most of the groups available, you won't get much.

S_A_P 11y ago

You wouldnt happen to be the Rip Rowan of ProRec.com would you? miss that site...

riprowan 11y ago
aw shucks

specialist 11y ago

As a discovery tool Pandora's value is debatable. Curation works better than recommenders. To my great surprise, I continue to discover new acts, music thru the radio. Just like when I was kid. KBCS.fm and KEXP.org have great speciality shows. They also do a good job of posting their play lists, streaming archives, linking to artists, promoting upcoming shows, etc. I've rarely discovered new stuff from a recommender (Pandora, last.fm, whatever). Now I don't even bother. But I do rediscover music (from my youth) via YouTube. Which is a delight. If mining radio playlists stops working for me, I'd be willing to try something like Apple Beat's notion.

riprowan 11y ago
Well it turns out that you aren't alone. Radio is still the most important music discovery media: https://d28wbuch0jlv7v.cloudfront.net/images/infografik/normal/chartoftheday_2077_Music_discovery_n.jpg https://d28wbuch0jlv7v.cloudfront.net/images/infografik/norm.... Notably, that chart puts Pandora discovery at a meaningful 10%.
voltagex_ 11y ago
I've had the opposite experience from you. I don't listen to much broadcast radio any more. I used to use Last.FM's recommender to find new bands to listen to, now I just use Spotify - after a few weeks the "Discover Weekly" playlist is spot on, even with a very eclectic taste in music (http://www.last.fm/user/voltagex/library/tracks?date_preset=LAST_180_DAYS http://www.last.fm/user/voltagex/library/tracks?date_preset=...). I've discovered entire genres via Spotify and last.fm and gone to several live events that I wouldn't have even known about without services like these.
- specialist 11y ago
  Thank you for sharing your favorites! Aside: I very much want to use scrobble (or equiv) to consolidate all my faves. It's on my ever growing to do list.

girvo 11y ago

Back when I had my radio show here in Brisbane, I used Pandora specifically for discovery for music... but that's a pretty particular use-case heh.

bmm6o 11y ago

> I just found a bit a data that states that Pandora accounts for ~10% of new music discovery which is a lot better than I would have guessed To me this says more about the weakness of the alternatives than about the strength of Pandora. At least it's possible to hear new music on Pandora. It's sad what a lowest common denominator echo chamber terrestrial radio has become.

riprowan 11y ago
In the USA, the overwhelming majority of terrestrial radio is owned by ~3 corporate behemoths with profit-sharing arrangements with the Big Three labels and their thousands of subsidiaries. What used to be decentralized to the local market level is now mostly inaccessible to unsigned / independent artists. Instead radio is just a distribution network for the major labels and their subs. Consider this typical everyday sort of press release we see in the industry all the time these days: http://www.musicrow.com/2014/03/clear-channel-bbr-music-group-reach-revenue-sharing-deal/ http://www.musicrow.com/2014/03/clear-channel-bbr-music-grou... Payola: Payola, in the music industry, is the illegal practice of payment or other inducement by record companies for the broadcast of recordings on commercial radio in which the song is presented as being part of the normal day's broadcast. Under U.S. law, 47 U.S.C. § 317, a radio station can play a specific song in exchange for money, but this must be disclosed on the air as being sponsored airtime, and that play of the song should not be counted as a "regular airplay". Revenue sharing agreements? SMH. Imagine you're an independent artist. That's the hurdle you have to be able to cross in order to get access to discovery platforms. This includes access to choice Spotify or YouTube playlists, satellite and Internet radio, and other conventional discovery mechanisms.

SeanLuke 11y ago

> (Update: I just found a bit a data that states that Pandora accounts for ~10% of new music discovery which is a lot better than I would have guessed.) This sounds like a version of Russell and Norvig's Mengitis question. The probability you have a stiff neck if you have meningitis is 70%. But what is the probability that you have meningitis if you have a stiff neck? Keep in mind that Meningitis is 1/50,000 cases but stiff necks are 1/100 cases. Answer: 0.14%, quite small. Similarly, the probability that you are on Pandora if you are discovered is 1/10. But what is the probability that you are discovered if you're on Pandora? Likely very, very, very small.

riprowan 11y ago
> the probability that you are on Pandora if you are discovered is 1/10. But what is the probability that you are discovered if you're on Pandora? Likely very, very, very small. I'm not sure that's what the analysis is saying. I think the analysis is saying, "among discoverers, when discovery occurred, the discoverer was using [CHANNEL] with X% probability".

kedean 11y ago

Pandora is probably my best mode of music discovery these days, above Spotify and social suggestions. If you actively seek out more from the newer artists it suggests, you'll get good results. If you go there with a genre in mind where you already know most of the groups available, you won't get much.