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Facebook disregards your rights as a creator, user, and individual. I've read enough history to know what sharecropping looks like. Tell me how this is differe

Facebook disregards your rights as a creator, user, and individual. I've read enough history to know what sharecropping looks like. Tell me how this is different than sharecropping. Why should I build something I don't control on Lord Zuckerberg's platform so I can play the startup lottery? We did this almost a decade ago. Facebook introduced their developer platform and people started giving up their freedoms. This isn't a conspiracy theory, this is something you can observe by yourself. Facebook has already broadcasted loud and wide how they are going to screw you over. It's your choice.

callumjones 11y ago
You could argue the same for the App Store, Play store, etc. This is the reality: you can reach these vast numbers of users on these platforms through these stores. Facebook isn't forcing anyone to do this, but they are providing an opportunity. If you don't want to be part of this then thats your choice.
- vthallam 11y ago
  The app store/play store are different altogether. FB & Twitter launched as a seemingly open platform but later decided to cut down many things.
hayksaakian 11y ago
The real question is can you get in, win, and get out before any of that matters. If you 'rode the facebook apps' wave you probably made decent money unless you stayed in too long. Another strategy is to build an integration to messenger to get exposure for your totally independant app. For example If i made some pizza ordering ai, i could hook it up to messenger as an additional channel.
- state 11y ago
  The 'real' question is how can we build an alternative platform that doesn't require you to try to 'win' by effectively screwing the people who actually use the stuff you build.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - nfoz 11y ago
    I think that problem has been unsolved for ~500 years? More?
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    After someone comes up with an answer to that let's backport it to the very concept of the cloud.
    - debacle 11y ago
      The answer is "Users actually pay for shit." Good luck with that.
    - reitanqild 11y ago
      sandstorm.io has some very interesting ideas, and have already implemented a usable base: * click-to-provision web apps * small fees on hosted version, full open source version available * developer friendly * open also for commercial software
- Johnie 11y ago
  If you look at some of the successful startups that started on a platform, this is what they did. Example: Instagram - used Facebook for viral distribution and eventually eclipsed Facebook Imgur - built image hosting for Reddit and now has eclipsed Reddit.
  - pionar 11y ago
    > Instagram - used Facebook for viral distribution and eventually eclipsed Facebook Imgur - built image hosting for Reddit and now has eclipsed Reddit. Uh, not quite. Imgur would still die if Reddit went away. Same for Instagram. If Twitter and FB went away, it'd die.
    - galistoca 11y ago
      Imgur might, but I doubt Instagram will die if FB and Twitter went away.
    - djsumdog 11y ago
      Instagram is owned by Facebook, so it won't die unless they kill it.
    - Johnie 11y ago
      Imgur has more traffic than Reddit: http://venturebeat.com/2013/09/26/imgur-traffic-milestone-100m-uniques/ http://venturebeat.com/2013/09/26/imgur-traffic-milestone-10...
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
  - brazzledazzle 11y ago
    I'm curious, so does that mean imgur has more active users now?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- gue5t 11y ago
  There's a word for people who only care about their own quality of life, and not that of those around them: "assholes". Don't be an asshole, and don't advocate "fuck you got mine" practices like these. Let's work to dismantle abusive systems like Facebook.
  - galistoca 11y ago
    There's also a word for people who don't try to understand what someone else is trying to say and just tries to impose his own idea to everyone else by calling them names: "assholes".
  - __abc 11y ago
    I don't think their proposed approach makes them an asshole. No need for promoting absolutism.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - sbov 11y ago
    So you agree with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11482075 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11482075 but also just felt like calling the parent an asshole?
    - gue5t 11y ago
      Yes!
  - robertfw 11y ago
    "fuck you got mine" pretty much sums up capitalism as we know it today. Don't hold your breath for change
    - frogpelt 11y ago
      Not even close. Very few people/companies get rich by not caring about their users or customers. Most "greedy" corporations are actually improving the lives of their users or customers at least from the customers' perspective.
- oblio 11y ago
  So, basically, a Ponzi scheme :)
lowglow 11y ago
Yes. This. Facebook has been known to bait and switch on developers time and time again, even outright stealing what devs have worked on if it becomes competitive. If you build on platforms like this, you're going to have a bad time.
- johansch 11y ago
  Thankfully for Zuckerberg, our industry is very bad at learning from history.
  - freyr 11y ago
    "Dumb fucks."
    - snerbles 11y ago
      -- Mark Zuckerberg, after receiving the personal information of thousands of people at Harvard. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/14/facebook_trust_dumb/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/14/facebook_trust_dumb/
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
djsumdog 11y ago
I wish I could get my friends to use DuckDuckGo's XMPP server. Google removed federation from their server. AIM, Yahoo and MSN were all closed gardens and people reverse engineered them to make gaim (now pidgin/libpurple), audium (libpurple based?), trillian, et al. There is a Facebook plug-in for libpurple. I've looked at the source code for it and hangups (OSS hangouts library) but I'm already short on time for all the projects I want to work on. In any case, in the past, devs in the community used these closed walled servers for our use. Today the very nature of IM is different with its use dictated to us by Google/Facebook's marketing gods (no online indicators, you're always online, you're never away, everything is a text, e-mails are apparently too long and difficult to read).
- ihuman 11y ago
  Didn't Facebook used to use XMPP too?
  - Zash 11y ago
    They had an XMPP interface, yes. It allowed you to sign into FB Messenger using any XMPP client. But it was very limited and did not follow modern XMPP practices. Then they killed it in favor of MQTT, which isn't even an IM protocol.
- mahyarm 11y ago
  Go help the signal project! It needs ios-desktop integration and help elsewhere. But it's almost there as far as a complete chat solution. https://github.com/whispersystems/ https://github.com/whispersystems/
  - wcummings 11y ago
    You have to sign a CLA, no thanks.
    - brian_cloutier 11y ago
      What is your objection to CLAs? I generally think they're nice but don't know much about them.
yeukhon 11y ago
Then don't build on it. Period. If you don't like what Facebook is doing, don't build on it. Don't use it. People who built on others' platform shouldn't expect utopia. You don't own the house, you are just a tenant. Contract is done you are out. Well, there isn't much of any contract between you and Facebook Platform anyway.
- codexon 11y ago
  Well he probably won't. But just one person avoiding it isn't going to make a difference. You have to let everyone else know it is a bad idea.
  - return0 11y ago
    No, you have to make a better idea so people switch to you. You cant replace something with a vacuum.
grutalampa 11y ago
Facebook is a prison. It could literary kill the internet as we know.
smrtinsert 11y ago
Fool me once...
unclebucknasty 11y ago
Indeed. It's unbelievable that FB has the audacity to shamelessly put this out there as if we've not been down this road and don't know how the story ends. Maybe they're counting on a new generation of starry-eyed would-be "FB entrepreneurs" to drink the Kool-aid. But, anyone who was there the first time around ought to know better.

callumjones 11y ago

You could argue the same for the App Store, Play store, etc. This is the reality: you can reach these vast numbers of users on these platforms through these stores. Facebook isn't forcing anyone to do this, but they are providing an opportunity. If you don't want to be part of this then thats your choice.

vthallam 11y ago
The app store/play store are different altogether. FB & Twitter launched as a seemingly open platform but later decided to cut down many things.

hayksaakian 11y ago

The real question is can you get in, win, and get out before any of that matters. If you 'rode the facebook apps' wave you probably made decent money unless you stayed in too long. Another strategy is to build an integration to messenger to get exposure for your totally independant app. For example If i made some pizza ordering ai, i could hook it up to messenger as an additional channel.

state 11y ago
The 'real' question is how can we build an alternative platform that doesn't require you to try to 'win' by effectively screwing the people who actually use the stuff you build.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- nfoz 11y ago
  I think that problem has been unsolved for ~500 years? More?
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  After someone comes up with an answer to that let's backport it to the very concept of the cloud.
  - debacle 11y ago
    The answer is "Users actually pay for shit." Good luck with that.
  - reitanqild 11y ago
    sandstorm.io has some very interesting ideas, and have already implemented a usable base: * click-to-provision web apps * small fees on hosted version, full open source version available * developer friendly * open also for commercial software
Johnie 11y ago
If you look at some of the successful startups that started on a platform, this is what they did. Example: Instagram - used Facebook for viral distribution and eventually eclipsed Facebook Imgur - built image hosting for Reddit and now has eclipsed Reddit.
- pionar 11y ago
  > Instagram - used Facebook for viral distribution and eventually eclipsed Facebook Imgur - built image hosting for Reddit and now has eclipsed Reddit. Uh, not quite. Imgur would still die if Reddit went away. Same for Instagram. If Twitter and FB went away, it'd die.
  - galistoca 11y ago
    Imgur might, but I doubt Instagram will die if FB and Twitter went away.
  - djsumdog 11y ago
    Instagram is owned by Facebook, so it won't die unless they kill it.
  - Johnie 11y ago
    Imgur has more traffic than Reddit: http://venturebeat.com/2013/09/26/imgur-traffic-milestone-100m-uniques/ http://venturebeat.com/2013/09/26/imgur-traffic-milestone-10...
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
- brazzledazzle 11y ago
  I'm curious, so does that mean imgur has more active users now?
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
gue5t 11y ago
There's a word for people who only care about their own quality of life, and not that of those around them: "assholes". Don't be an asshole, and don't advocate "fuck you got mine" practices like these. Let's work to dismantle abusive systems like Facebook.
- galistoca 11y ago
  There's also a word for people who don't try to understand what someone else is trying to say and just tries to impose his own idea to everyone else by calling them names: "assholes".
- __abc 11y ago
  I don't think their proposed approach makes them an asshole. No need for promoting absolutism.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- sbov 11y ago
  So you agree with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11482075 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11482075 but also just felt like calling the parent an asshole?
  - gue5t 11y ago
    Yes!
- robertfw 11y ago
  "fuck you got mine" pretty much sums up capitalism as we know it today. Don't hold your breath for change
  - frogpelt 11y ago
    Not even close. Very few people/companies get rich by not caring about their users or customers. Most "greedy" corporations are actually improving the lives of their users or customers at least from the customers' perspective.
oblio 11y ago
So, basically, a Ponzi scheme :)

lowglow 11y ago

Yes. This. Facebook has been known to bait and switch on developers time and time again, even outright stealing what devs have worked on if it becomes competitive. If you build on platforms like this, you're going to have a bad time.

johansch 11y ago
Thankfully for Zuckerberg, our industry is very bad at learning from history.
- freyr 11y ago
  "Dumb fucks."
  - snerbles 11y ago
    -- Mark Zuckerberg, after receiving the personal information of thousands of people at Harvard. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/14/facebook_trust_dumb/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/14/facebook_trust_dumb/

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

djsumdog 11y ago

I wish I could get my friends to use DuckDuckGo's XMPP server. Google removed federation from their server. AIM, Yahoo and MSN were all closed gardens and people reverse engineered them to make gaim (now pidgin/libpurple), audium (libpurple based?), trillian, et al. There is a Facebook plug-in for libpurple. I've looked at the source code for it and hangups (OSS hangouts library) but I'm already short on time for all the projects I want to work on. In any case, in the past, devs in the community used these closed walled servers for our use. Today the very nature of IM is different with its use dictated to us by Google/Facebook's marketing gods (no online indicators, you're always online, you're never away, everything is a text, e-mails are apparently too long and difficult to read).

ihuman 11y ago
Didn't Facebook used to use XMPP too?
- Zash 11y ago
  They had an XMPP interface, yes. It allowed you to sign into FB Messenger using any XMPP client. But it was very limited and did not follow modern XMPP practices. Then they killed it in favor of MQTT, which isn't even an IM protocol.
mahyarm 11y ago
Go help the signal project! It needs ios-desktop integration and help elsewhere. But it's almost there as far as a complete chat solution. https://github.com/whispersystems/ https://github.com/whispersystems/
- wcummings 11y ago
  You have to sign a CLA, no thanks.
  - brian_cloutier 11y ago
    What is your objection to CLAs? I generally think they're nice but don't know much about them.

yeukhon 11y ago

Then don't build on it. Period. If you don't like what Facebook is doing, don't build on it. Don't use it. People who built on others' platform shouldn't expect utopia. You don't own the house, you are just a tenant. Contract is done you are out. Well, there isn't much of any contract between you and Facebook Platform anyway.

codexon 11y ago
Well he probably won't. But just one person avoiding it isn't going to make a difference. You have to let everyone else know it is a bad idea.
- return0 11y ago
  No, you have to make a better idea so people switch to you. You cant replace something with a vacuum.

grutalampa 11y ago

Facebook is a prison. It could literary kill the internet as we know.

smrtinsert 11y ago

Fool me once...

unclebucknasty 11y ago

Indeed. It's unbelievable that FB has the audacity to shamelessly put this out there as if we've not been down this road and don't know how the story ends. Maybe they're counting on a new generation of starry-eyed would-be "FB entrepreneurs" to drink the Kool-aid. But, anyone who was there the first time around ought to know better.