4 ms·

This is a totally confused issue. The popular Reddit forum for women calls itself "TwoXChromosomes" but also disallows transphobia. Now, in some people's books,

by theoh 11y ago

This is a totally confused issue. The popular Reddit forum for women calls itself "TwoXChromosomes" but also disallows transphobia. Now, in some people's books, even this equation of having two X chromosomes with being a woman is reductively cisnormative or transphobic. As gender reassignment doesn't affect genetics, I think the fairest interpretation is to consider that we just aren't there yet in terms of the biology of gender reassignment. But even stating this is unacceptable to some.

mikeash 11y ago
What makes that the fairest interpretation? There are trans people who look and act just like the gender they identify with. Letting them use the bathroom of the gender they identify with makes the most sense to me, not only for them, but for everyone else. Saying that genetics are what really matter and you have to use the bathroom determined by your chromosomes just seem lazy, not fair.
- theoh 11y ago
  I'm not talking about the bathroom issue, but responding to your question about physical gender. I'm in favour of permissive laws about this and similar scenarios. The bigger problem here is things like so-called TERF (trans-exclusionary radical feminism) in which high profile feminists who display contempt for transgender people are unfairly lumped in with innocent people who are merely aware of the limitations of current medicine. That discussion (the TERF discussion) is a painful one to engage with. But maybe bringing that problem up is a non-sequitur.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    My question was rhetorical, intended to point out the difficulty of even using that term in the first place. Seems to me that the bigger problem is bigoted legislators who think it's OK to force their religious values on other people, not some group of radical feminists I've never even heard of before and who I'm guessing have very little power.
    - theoh 11y ago
      FWIW, I'm mentioning the TERF label not because it's "radical" but because I think, in the psychological battle for tolerance on all sides, it's near the front line, and it's very emotive. If you aren't near the front line, in whatever way, I agree that it may seem less important than protesting intolerant legislation. http://www.feministcurrent.com/2015/11/10/why-i-no-longer-hate-terfs/ http://www.feministcurrent.com/2015/11/10/why-i-no-longer-ha...

by theoh 11y ago

mikeash 11y ago

What makes that the fairest interpretation? There are trans people who look and act just like the gender they identify with. Letting them use the bathroom of the gender they identify with makes the most sense to me, not only for them, but for everyone else. Saying that genetics are what really matter and you have to use the bathroom determined by your chromosomes just seem lazy, not fair.

theoh 11y ago
I'm not talking about the bathroom issue, but responding to your question about physical gender. I'm in favour of permissive laws about this and similar scenarios. The bigger problem here is things like so-called TERF (trans-exclusionary radical feminism) in which high profile feminists who display contempt for transgender people are unfairly lumped in with innocent people who are merely aware of the limitations of current medicine. That discussion (the TERF discussion) is a painful one to engage with. But maybe bringing that problem up is a non-sequitur.
- mikeash 11y ago
  My question was rhetorical, intended to point out the difficulty of even using that term in the first place. Seems to me that the bigger problem is bigoted legislators who think it's OK to force their religious values on other people, not some group of radical feminists I've never even heard of before and who I'm guessing have very little power.
  - theoh 11y ago
    FWIW, I'm mentioning the TERF label not because it's "radical" but because I think, in the psychological battle for tolerance on all sides, it's near the front line, and it's very emotive. If you aren't near the front line, in whatever way, I agree that it may seem less important than protesting intolerant legislation. http://www.feministcurrent.com/2015/11/10/why-i-no-longer-hate-terfs/ http://www.feministcurrent.com/2015/11/10/why-i-no-longer-ha...