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>> "Also Skrillex - his label had no interest in his bleep-blonk-screech-BASS DROP tunes and he set it free online and got that avenue going - now he's got his

>> "Also Skrillex - his label had no interest in his bleep-blonk-screech-BASS DROP tunes and he set it free online and got that avenue going - now he's got his own label and millions in the bank." Financially I think artists like Skrillex (EDM producers in general) are incredibly lucky. Production costs are practically zero. You buy a DAW and some monitors and you can do everything at home on your laptop. You don't need to pay a band, all revenue is yours. And on top of that touring costs are minimal (a midi controller and a laptop) so you're extracting the maximum profit from each show. If you want a financially successful career in music this is probably the most sure route to take. Edit: A lot of people responding are bringing up the point that production costs for most genres are now relatively low. While that's true when it comes to actually making money from the music that's much easier in electronic music for the reasons I gave above (one person, very little gear to drag around, no band to pay).

beachstartup 11y ago
a lot of electronic shows are more complicated than that, but i think for someone who chooses to be lean, yeah it's basically like being a programmer that throws parties for a living instead of a band.
earlz 11y ago
Realistically, this is also true of most modern music. Sure it requires a bit more equipment, but with software amp simulation and the plethora of VST plugins you can get, you can almost always get a tone similar to your target for just a couple hundred dollars, at most. Combine with equipment and you're looking at maybe $600 in instruments/equipment and a basic mic for vocals. The only sticking point right now it seems is that drums are still notoriously hard to record, though MIDI/software drums are extremely realistic, and even beyond that. It's extremely easy to find a random stranger on the internet that likes your style and happens to be a drummer with all the equipment for recording drums. And then again, EDM is cheap, but it can be extremely time consuming if you're going cheap. Good synths don't just build themselves and there's a reason people buy virtual instrument packs.
- rorykoehler 11y ago
  >you can almost always get a tone similar to your target Therein lies the rub. You can't beat real circuits and valves especially when you're cranking it loud for a gig. The difference between the (admittedly pretty amazing) VST's and the real deal is the difference between sounding good and sounding great. Touring a band is still expensive. So much so that it was the difference between going on extensive global touring as a duo or not touring at all (4 piece) for someone I know.
  - 6stringmerc 11y ago
    As much as I want to agree with you nostalgia wise on the "real circuits and valves" thing, pretty much every industry magazine interview I've read with the top teir of guitarists basically say that "real amps" are for in the studio and when going on the road just use the Kemper[1] and nobody will be able to tell the difference. Honestly I would buy one of those in a heartbeat if I had the income/need/ability to write it off as a business expense. [1] A Kemper review from 2012 - http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/guitars/kemper-profiling-amp-538742 http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/guitars/kemper-profiling-a... >This is the context in which the Kemper truly excels and it proves possible to create amp profiles that are good enough to fool three sets of very experienced ears during our testing process. At one stage, we even find ourselves unplugging the reference amplifier just to make sure that it's definitely the Kemper that we're hearing and there isn't some elaborate hoax taking place!
    - ajtaylor 11y ago
      I'm not a musician and I've never heard of a Kemper before, but that's one amazing piece of kit!
    - earlz 11y ago
      There are too many nonlinearities in real circuits and valves to perfectly model with current technology(or programming methods), but you're absolutely spot on that 99% of people can't tell the difference, even musicians. It's only the person playing the instrument that tends to care
6stringmerc 11y ago
Good point for sure. It's not just EDM - a basic Pop song can be produced at practically zero cost once an independent musician and producer has sunk the costs of DAW and equipment into the operation. A lot of music, in general, is stunningly simple. Hip-hop can be done with one MPC and a mic (okay maybe AutoTune as well haha). Country only really needs an acoustic guitar, vocals, and a quality mic. Yes, there's a reason studio quality recordings sound great, and I'm not going to deny that at all. But... Owl City is a great example of a talented person producing their own material (then mastered) which fit the quality expectations and was, pretty much, recorded in one guy's bedroom. Gotye's "Used to Know" was recorded all by himself in a room over a barn in New Zealand. These are just a couple recent examples where I think the technology and dynamics of music production are really coming together (Trent Reznor is a great historical study). Personally I really enjoy playing with a talented drummer - which I will do tonight and probably broadcast on Periscope - but when I'm at home, making tunes that I'll eventually release, I can get fantastic results from Apple's GarageBand "Drummer" algorithm thingy. The tools that exist now would've changed my world as a teenager. I think teenagers growing up now - the ones serious about making music - have more tools and opportunities than ever before. I'm a wee bit jealous, no lie. Edit: To clarify regarding your edit, the personal production can now extend to live performance. Rappers typically just have a DJ behind them (sometimes a live band). There's a lot of wiggle-room for mid-market musicians to simply bring their box of backing tracks with them to perform live, and I think that is becoming more and more acceptable. I used to get really odd looks using a Netbook + Akai APC40 on stage, and now that's pretty tame compared to some of the other gear setups indies can employ. This way, the musician makes more money because there are fewer musicians on stage that need to be paid (my personal approach).
- andrewvc 11y ago
  It COULD cost that much. But actually it doesn't. See http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2011/07/05/137530847/how-much-does-it-cost-to-make-a-hit-song http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2011/07/05/137530847/how-m... $78k production $1m in advertising
- joslin01 11y ago
  Teenagers growing up don't only have a plethora more of opportunities & tools -- they also have a plethora of distracting activities that can take away from the careful attention needed to make great music. Sometimes I believe the guys in the 60s & 70s ironically had it easier because they just sat around, maybe smoking some dope, and played music. There wasn't a smartphone at their hip vibrating every few minutes, so they could really just pour their heart into the music and hey, Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, Beatles, Dylan, etc... you name a great, probably came out of that time period. While I like a lot of stuff today, I do question if it'll hold up to the test of time and personally feel very little of it will when compared to how much did & will continue from the 60s/70s.
burkaman 11y ago
But that means there's lots more competition, right? If, theoretically, anybody with a laptop can do what you do, you have to be that much more talented and work that much harder. It sounds like any other business. It's like saying freelance web developers are incredibly lucky, because their only business expenses are a laptop and maybe some software. That's true, but it also means that high school students can do what they do for free.
user_0001 11y ago
Skrillex got rich by marketing "EDM" to the mass US festival market. That and probably to no small extent the huge influx of MDMA and MDMA-like drugs.

beachstartup 11y ago

a lot of electronic shows are more complicated than that, but i think for someone who chooses to be lean, yeah it's basically like being a programmer that throws parties for a living instead of a band.

earlz 11y ago

Realistically, this is also true of most modern music. Sure it requires a bit more equipment, but with software amp simulation and the plethora of VST plugins you can get, you can almost always get a tone similar to your target for just a couple hundred dollars, at most. Combine with equipment and you're looking at maybe $600 in instruments/equipment and a basic mic for vocals. The only sticking point right now it seems is that drums are still notoriously hard to record, though MIDI/software drums are extremely realistic, and even beyond that. It's extremely easy to find a random stranger on the internet that likes your style and happens to be a drummer with all the equipment for recording drums. And then again, EDM is cheap, but it can be extremely time consuming if you're going cheap. Good synths don't just build themselves and there's a reason people buy virtual instrument packs.

rorykoehler 11y ago
>you can almost always get a tone similar to your target Therein lies the rub. You can't beat real circuits and valves especially when you're cranking it loud for a gig. The difference between the (admittedly pretty amazing) VST's and the real deal is the difference between sounding good and sounding great. Touring a band is still expensive. So much so that it was the difference between going on extensive global touring as a duo or not touring at all (4 piece) for someone I know.
- 6stringmerc 11y ago
  As much as I want to agree with you nostalgia wise on the "real circuits and valves" thing, pretty much every industry magazine interview I've read with the top teir of guitarists basically say that "real amps" are for in the studio and when going on the road just use the Kemper[1] and nobody will be able to tell the difference. Honestly I would buy one of those in a heartbeat if I had the income/need/ability to write it off as a business expense. [1] A Kemper review from 2012 - http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/guitars/kemper-profiling-amp-538742 http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/guitars/kemper-profiling-a... >This is the context in which the Kemper truly excels and it proves possible to create amp profiles that are good enough to fool three sets of very experienced ears during our testing process. At one stage, we even find ourselves unplugging the reference amplifier just to make sure that it's definitely the Kemper that we're hearing and there isn't some elaborate hoax taking place!
  - ajtaylor 11y ago
    I'm not a musician and I've never heard of a Kemper before, but that's one amazing piece of kit!
  - earlz 11y ago
    There are too many nonlinearities in real circuits and valves to perfectly model with current technology(or programming methods), but you're absolutely spot on that 99% of people can't tell the difference, even musicians. It's only the person playing the instrument that tends to care

6stringmerc 11y ago

Good point for sure. It's not just EDM - a basic Pop song can be produced at practically zero cost once an independent musician and producer has sunk the costs of DAW and equipment into the operation. A lot of music, in general, is stunningly simple. Hip-hop can be done with one MPC and a mic (okay maybe AutoTune as well haha). Country only really needs an acoustic guitar, vocals, and a quality mic. Yes, there's a reason studio quality recordings sound great, and I'm not going to deny that at all. But... Owl City is a great example of a talented person producing their own material (then mastered) which fit the quality expectations and was, pretty much, recorded in one guy's bedroom. Gotye's "Used to Know" was recorded all by himself in a room over a barn in New Zealand. These are just a couple recent examples where I think the technology and dynamics of music production are really coming together (Trent Reznor is a great historical study). Personally I really enjoy playing with a talented drummer - which I will do tonight and probably broadcast on Periscope - but when I'm at home, making tunes that I'll eventually release, I can get fantastic results from Apple's GarageBand "Drummer" algorithm thingy. The tools that exist now would've changed my world as a teenager. I think teenagers growing up now - the ones serious about making music - have more tools and opportunities than ever before. I'm a wee bit jealous, no lie. Edit: To clarify regarding your edit, the personal production can now extend to live performance. Rappers typically just have a DJ behind them (sometimes a live band). There's a lot of wiggle-room for mid-market musicians to simply bring their box of backing tracks with them to perform live, and I think that is becoming more and more acceptable. I used to get really odd looks using a Netbook + Akai APC40 on stage, and now that's pretty tame compared to some of the other gear setups indies can employ. This way, the musician makes more money because there are fewer musicians on stage that need to be paid (my personal approach).

andrewvc 11y ago
It COULD cost that much. But actually it doesn't. See http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2011/07/05/137530847/how-much-does-it-cost-to-make-a-hit-song http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2011/07/05/137530847/how-m... $78k production $1m in advertising
joslin01 11y ago
Teenagers growing up don't only have a plethora more of opportunities & tools -- they also have a plethora of distracting activities that can take away from the careful attention needed to make great music. Sometimes I believe the guys in the 60s & 70s ironically had it easier because they just sat around, maybe smoking some dope, and played music. There wasn't a smartphone at their hip vibrating every few minutes, so they could really just pour their heart into the music and hey, Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, Beatles, Dylan, etc... you name a great, probably came out of that time period. While I like a lot of stuff today, I do question if it'll hold up to the test of time and personally feel very little of it will when compared to how much did & will continue from the 60s/70s.

burkaman 11y ago

But that means there's lots more competition, right? If, theoretically, anybody with a laptop can do what you do, you have to be that much more talented and work that much harder. It sounds like any other business. It's like saying freelance web developers are incredibly lucky, because their only business expenses are a laptop and maybe some software. That's true, but it also means that high school students can do what they do for free.

user_0001 11y ago

Skrillex got rich by marketing "EDM" to the mass US festival market. That and probably to no small extent the huge influx of MDMA and MDMA-like drugs.