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For me, this is the most important aspect of this paper: "People say, ‘Americans are living longer, so we ought to delay the age of retirement,’ but … it’s a l
by chatwinra 10y ago
For me, this is the most important aspect of this paper:
"People say, ‘Americans are living longer, so we ought to delay the age of retirement,’ but … it’s a little bit unfair to say to low-income people that they’re going to get Social Security and Medicare for fewer years because investment bankers are living longer.”"
As the divide between the rich and poor keeps growing [1], we need to start doing something about it in all areas, and this seems like a really important finding for that.
[1]http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/employment/in-it-together-why-less-inequality-benefits-all_9789264235120-en http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/employment/in-it-together-why-l...
- yummyfajitas 10y agoAccording to the original article, life expectancy differences "were not significantly correlated with access to medical care, physical environmental factors, income inequality, or labor market conditions." https://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2513561 https://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2513561 So in fact doing something about the "divide between the rich and poor" is unlikely to help. It might even be counterproductive if it reduces income (which is highly correlated) and if this effect is causal.
- chatwinra 10y agoThe point you're referring to relates specifically to geographic differences. From the results section: "inequality in life expectancy increased over time. Between 2001 and 2014, life expectancy increased by 2.34 years for men and 2.91 years for women in the top 5% of the income distribution, but by only 0.32 years for men and 0.04 years for women in the bottom 5% (P < .001 for the differences for both sexes)." So I think the co-authors had a point when they talked about retirement age!
- yummyfajitas 10y agoSee Figure 8 for numbers on "Population-weighted univariate Pearson correlations estimated between local area characteristics and race- and ethnicity-adjusted expected age at death for 40-year-olds in the bottom income quartile." The CIs for income inequality (as well as health care factors and local labor market conditions) do not exclude zero.
- Certhas 10y agoBut life expectancy in many countries that are poorer than the US is higher, so it's not absolute wealth that matters either. https://data.oecd.org/healthstat/life-expectancy-at-birth.htm https://data.oecd.org/healthstat/life-expectancy-at-birth.ht...
- yummyfajitas 10y agoI suspect that genetics (not measured by this study) and lifestyle factors (big according to this) are probably the dominant factors. I expect that Delhi/Shanghai magnitude physical environment factors is also important. But luckily the US is a lot cleaner.
- gadders 10y agoI'm not 100% against raising the retirement age, but it would be a lot easier on me to work until I'm 70 than, say, a garbage collector or builder.
- emodendroket 10y agoYeah, realistically those people are not going to be able to work till they're 70.
- jazzyk 10y agoWhile office work is less demanding in certain aspects, it can be quite destructive in other ways, if you are not careful: - circulatory issues (hypertension, due to lack of exercise), - obesity, - back issues, - repetitive stress injuries, etc. All of these could keep you from working. Exercise and proper diet are key, regardless of your social status. The problem is that lower-status people usually don;t have the knowledge or don't care.
- pc86 10y agoIt is entirely reasonable to assume that the average office worker could continue working into their late 60s and 70s. Obviously there will be exceptions and many will not, but the majority certainly can. You're not going to have 80% attrition among management because of RSI and obesity. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone fit and healthy enough to be a garbage collector from age 18 to age 70, even if they're the one driving the truck.
- akavi 10y ago> The problem is that lower-status people usually don;t have the knowledge or don't care. Or, just maybe, don't have the money or the free time.
- jazzyk 10y agoLet's not introduce victim mentality here. - gym memberships start from $10/month (optional, there are plenty of body-weight exercises you can do outside of gym). - running costs nothing (in recurring fees). - all you need is 1 hr/day, 3-4 times a week. It is all really about knowledge and motivation. I am not saying it is easy, but it has nothing to do with money.
- lr4444lr 10y agoThey already DO get SS for fewer years, and are forced to pay into it for more years, because wealthy bankers can afford to retire earlier than people who live paycheck to paycheck. Social Security in its current formulation (not means-tested, cap on income which is taxable for it) is pretty regressive.
- emodendroket 10y agoMeans-testing would probably lead to Social Security being killed by the cap on income should go.
- pc86 10y agoCan you please explain to me what a hedge fund manager in Connecticut retiring at 35 has to do with a 60 year old Wal-Mart employee's social security?
- lr4444lr 10y agoAt 62, the hedge fund manager is eligible for social security, on top of the capital gains he's been living off of comfortably for the prior 27 years. The Wal-Mart employee may never be able to afford to stop working because of the penalty on income over the minimum. That's how the system is set up.
- pc86 10y ago> They already DO get SS for fewer years, and are forced to pay into it for more years, because wealthy bankers can afford to retire earlier than people who live paycheck to paycheck. The Wal-Mart greet is not forced to pay into SS because of the hedge fund manager's wealth. The fact that one person can retire early does not exacerbate the financial problems of someone else.
- robbiep 10y agoThe origin of social security/pensions in France was that they set the retirement age at 70, an age 1-2% of the population made it to. (My link actually claims Germany, I can't find the French data and I'm on mobile so the intrepid reader may set out on an exploration of the pension system from here. In such a system, the tax burden of sure porting the population is obviously minimal. As standards of living and life expectancy improved, the proportion of people making it to pension age increased, and the pension age decreased (generally in line with expansion of social welfare programs, as well as a recognition that retirement was more of a right than a privilege for those who lasted long enough). Is it so wrong for pension ages to creep up? Demographics certainly had. I for one expect to be working for my entire lifespan (although as a doctor this is probably easier for me than many other professions) [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension