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>Maybe we shouldn't be surprised to see safe spaces / micro-aggressions as a strategy to shut down unpleasant situations (ideas) rather than confronting them as

>Maybe we shouldn't be surprised to see safe spaces / micro-aggressions as a strategy to shut down unpleasant situations (ideas) rather than confronting them as ideas Is it not confronting to refuse it in your presence because you find the behavior unacceptable? What would you prefer the confrontation to be like? I don't agree with the extreme measures often taken by university kids but I also think criticism of it should be accurate to its state. That is, it is a form of confronting the idea of a social issue by creating a space where certain behaviors are unacceptable to facilitate more productive conversation without someone's ignorance shouting it down, taken too far with too many subjects because it's practiced mostly among young college kids who are really not experienced at all.

golemotron 11y ago
Except these strategies are not really about behaviors in many cases, they are about ideas. There have been a number of cases of safe spaces being set up as alternatives for on-campus events where 'unpleasant' ideas are discussed. University professors routinely have to censor material that is 'triggering' merely because of the ideas it presents.
- SolaceQuantum 11y ago
  > University professors routinely have to censor material that is 'triggering' merely because of the ideas it presents. Source? Is there a wide academic study on this? I know current college kids who sre studying genocide in literature class and rape in societal context. Most of the studies academia has on rape and microagression and so on are from professors on college campuses who presumably teach similar stuff. I find it highly improbable that this safe space issue in universities just sprung out of an aether of the internet into unsuspecting professors. Especially when, as I understand it, it started in universities. To be fair, these are also young adults floundering about with these new ideas. Presumably there's always been kids who complained about the professor in one way or another. Is the 'too hard' criticism of the modern ratemyprofessor.com any different than another young person complaining about a useless perceived microaggression? They're both probably going to be ignored in the greater context of things.
  - golemotron 11y ago
    - https://www.thefire.org/laura-kipniss-title-ix-inquisition-reveals-absurdity-of-the-current-campus-climate/ https://www.thefire.org/laura-kipniss-title-ix-inquisition-r... - http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trouble-teaching-rape-law http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trouble-teaching-rap... - http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/college-professor-afraid http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/college-professor-afraid - http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-codd...
    - SolaceQuantum 11y ago
      I apologize. I asked if there are any widespread studies on professors routinely (I would assume a casual 1 in 4 or 1 in 10 correlation would be routine?) being forced to edit and change their syllabus.
    - ihavedna 11y ago
      I'd like to share with you a response to article 3. https://chroniclevitae.com/news/1030-dear-liberal-professor-students-aren-t-the-problem https://chroniclevitae.com/news/1030-dear-liberal-professor-...
      - ihavedna 11y ago
        A note - this isn't the article I was originally looking for. There was a response to this article I recall specifically discussing colleges becoming more profit or money-minded and that it effects how it treats or protects its professors. It was a very useful perspective and I will do my best to find the article.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Suicide dropped by sociology exam board: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jun/15/suicide-dropped-sociology-exam-a-level http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jun/15/suicide-dro... A law professor saying it's becoming harder to teach laws relating to rape: http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trouble-teaching-rape-law http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trouble-teaching-rap... > To be fair, these are also young adults floundering about with these new ideas. Presumably there's always been kids who complained about the professor in one way or another. Is the 'too hard' criticism of the modern ratemyprofessor.com any different than another young person complaining about a useless perceived microaggression? They're both probably going to be ignored in the greater context of things. I'm not trying to stop them complaining. I am trying to stop them having their professors sacked and having speakers no-platformed.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
barry-cotter 11y ago
> Is it not confronting to refuse it in your presence because you find the behavior unacceptable? What would you prefer the confrontation to be like? I would prefer it violent. I would prefer the illiberal left exposed as bullies than universities just caving. The more people see that they're currently the fiercest opponents of a free society the better. I would prefer universities not caving and the no platformers shouting people down, rioting and assaulting people. > I don't agree with the extreme measures often taken by university kids but I also think criticism of it should be accurate to its state. That is, it is a form of confronting the idea of a social issue by creating a space where certain behaviors are unacceptable to facilitate more productive conversation without someone's ignorance shouting it down, taken too far with too many subjects because it's practiced mostly among young college kids who are really not experienced at all. Fine. A university is not a safe space. The public square is not a safe space. Let them have their safe spaces where they organise them. Their own clubs and societies for example.
- SolaceQuantum 11y ago
  > I would prefer it violent. Dude, why? This comes off to be as a gut based, emotional viewpoint rather than a rational one.
  - daveqr 11y ago
    "The more people see that they're currently the fiercest opponents of a free society the better."
return0 11y ago
Does putting your head in the sand and ignoring people pass as conforntation nowadays? You confront ideas with other ideas. You think Stephen Fry would be happier if he was a hidden- or silent- homosexual ?

golemotron 11y ago

Except these strategies are not really about behaviors in many cases, they are about ideas. There have been a number of cases of safe spaces being set up as alternatives for on-campus events where 'unpleasant' ideas are discussed. University professors routinely have to censor material that is 'triggering' merely because of the ideas it presents.

SolaceQuantum 11y ago
> University professors routinely have to censor material that is 'triggering' merely because of the ideas it presents. Source? Is there a wide academic study on this? I know current college kids who sre studying genocide in literature class and rape in societal context. Most of the studies academia has on rape and microagression and so on are from professors on college campuses who presumably teach similar stuff. I find it highly improbable that this safe space issue in universities just sprung out of an aether of the internet into unsuspecting professors. Especially when, as I understand it, it started in universities. To be fair, these are also young adults floundering about with these new ideas. Presumably there's always been kids who complained about the professor in one way or another. Is the 'too hard' criticism of the modern ratemyprofessor.com any different than another young person complaining about a useless perceived microaggression? They're both probably going to be ignored in the greater context of things.
- golemotron 11y ago
  - https://www.thefire.org/laura-kipniss-title-ix-inquisition-reveals-absurdity-of-the-current-campus-climate/ https://www.thefire.org/laura-kipniss-title-ix-inquisition-r... - http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trouble-teaching-rape-law http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trouble-teaching-rap... - http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/college-professor-afraid http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/college-professor-afraid - http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-codd...
  - SolaceQuantum 11y ago
    I apologize. I asked if there are any widespread studies on professors routinely (I would assume a casual 1 in 4 or 1 in 10 correlation would be routine?) being forced to edit and change their syllabus.
  - ihavedna 11y ago
    I'd like to share with you a response to article 3. https://chroniclevitae.com/news/1030-dear-liberal-professor-students-aren-t-the-problem https://chroniclevitae.com/news/1030-dear-liberal-professor-...
    - ihavedna 11y ago
      A note - this isn't the article I was originally looking for. There was a response to this article I recall specifically discussing colleges becoming more profit or money-minded and that it effects how it treats or protects its professors. It was a very useful perspective and I will do my best to find the article.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Suicide dropped by sociology exam board: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jun/15/suicide-dropped-sociology-exam-a-level http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jun/15/suicide-dro... A law professor saying it's becoming harder to teach laws relating to rape: http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trouble-teaching-rape-law http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trouble-teaching-rap... > To be fair, these are also young adults floundering about with these new ideas. Presumably there's always been kids who complained about the professor in one way or another. Is the 'too hard' criticism of the modern ratemyprofessor.com any different than another young person complaining about a useless perceived microaggression? They're both probably going to be ignored in the greater context of things. I'm not trying to stop them complaining. I am trying to stop them having their professors sacked and having speakers no-platformed.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

barry-cotter 11y ago

> Is it not confronting to refuse it in your presence because you find the behavior unacceptable? What would you prefer the confrontation to be like? I would prefer it violent. I would prefer the illiberal left exposed as bullies than universities just caving. The more people see that they're currently the fiercest opponents of a free society the better. I would prefer universities not caving and the no platformers shouting people down, rioting and assaulting people. > I don't agree with the extreme measures often taken by university kids but I also think criticism of it should be accurate to its state. That is, it is a form of confronting the idea of a social issue by creating a space where certain behaviors are unacceptable to facilitate more productive conversation without someone's ignorance shouting it down, taken too far with too many subjects because it's practiced mostly among young college kids who are really not experienced at all. Fine. A university is not a safe space. The public square is not a safe space. Let them have their safe spaces where they organise them. Their own clubs and societies for example.

SolaceQuantum 11y ago
> I would prefer it violent. Dude, why? This comes off to be as a gut based, emotional viewpoint rather than a rational one.
- daveqr 11y ago
  "The more people see that they're currently the fiercest opponents of a free society the better."

return0 11y ago

Does putting your head in the sand and ignoring people pass as conforntation nowadays? You confront ideas with other ideas. You think Stephen Fry would be happier if he was a hidden- or silent- homosexual ?