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Safe spaces should be handled the same way as religion. If you provide safe space, you should provide it for EVERY trigger. That would practically eliminate it.

Safe spaces should be handled the same way as religion. If you provide safe space, you should provide it for EVERY trigger. That would practically eliminate it. A few examples: Many of my relatives died because of marxism. My grandfather was in jail, because he was capitalist and employed 5 people. I can not be around people who approve any form of class warfare or class privilege. And I find cultural marxism triggering! My ancestors were slaves. In fact even word "slavery" is named after "slavic" people. By using that word, you are condoning slavic people to be slaves and that is TRIGGERING ME!

imaginenore 11y ago
Except they won't care about your triggers. SJWs / feminists have very specific agendas, and anything that gets in their way is immediately labeled as racist / misogynist, and they accuse you of hating women, they try to get yoi fired, etc. I went through that.
SolaceQuantum 11y ago
But they're not triggers because you're not actually triggered by them, as opposed to a person who was raped not appreciating rape jokes because it makes their PTSD real bad. As much as I disapprove of the caricatureizing of the concept of not being a rude person and the extreme positions that are being taken by the students, I feel it's still important to recognize they are young adults navigating these heavy concepts of balancing censorship and unacceptable behavior that deserves derision such as shouting slurs at people. Being condescending and dismissive of the entire concept just comes off as a rather extreme reaction to young people being what they've always been and exploring the society's boundaries that they live in and seeing what negatives they can change in their own circles. Once they actually get out of university I'm sure it'll be fine, as every generation has been one way or another.
- th667223 11y ago
  But you dont see into my head and can not say if I have a PTSD or not. It is like saying what form of suffering is worse, or what religion is right. Anyway I believe that it is already covered well. There is anti harassment law. And treating rape victim badly is fast way to loose friends. We are not talking about tiny fraction of people, but majority of population has some skeleton in the closet. Stats says that up to 25% women are rape victims, should all of them get a safe space? Also does this cover men? Prison rape jokes are quite popular on mainstream TV. And it is still socially acceptable to say that 12 year old boy "got lucky" with older lady. And how about war veterans with PTSD?
  - SolaceQuantum 11y ago
    I don't believe you adressed my point within the context of my point in response to a facetious caricature of trigger warning as an extreme response to the concept of having trigger warnings.
    - th667223 11y ago
      I made edit and added first paragraph, just after this was submitted. I believe my response covers it. It is very expensive or impossible to provide safe space for everyone in its current form. And if we provide safe spaces, we should probably start at prisons, which have much harsher conditions than universities.
      - SolaceQuantum 11y ago
        I agree with that point. I only disagree with caricaturization of a viewpoint you disagree with. I will ask, is there much wrong with a group of people organizing a safe space for themselves? It's impossible to make a public space "safe" but is it possible for individual groups to make spaces for themselves IRL? For example, my research university had an area in which LGBTQ people had meetups for bi people, LGBTQ of color, etc. I found that perfectly possible to exist.
        th667223 11y ago
        There is a difference between private safe space, and turning PUBLIC space into PRIVATE safe space.
- barry-cotter 11y ago
  He's condescending and dismissive of the entire concept because actual PTSD triggers are not the point of trigger warnings. They're barely even marginal examples of trigger warnings. Trigger warnings are about suppression of speech. Religious students don't get trigger warnings for courses that treat their views as anywhere between foolish and evil. Classical liberals don't get trigger warnings for their sociology, cultural anthropology or social psychology courses, despite the fact that all those disciplines have faculty that are overwhelmingly leftist. There's a great deal of diversity of opinion in those departments but it's diversity of leftist opinion. People aren't stupid. Trigger warnings aren't used in a way that has any correspondence to PTSD triggers. They're used as a stick to beat political opinions of the losing faction with, currently the right.
  - SolaceQuantum 11y ago
    Wow, this is completely different than my understanding and viewing trigger warnings being used. They were used to simply say "hey I'm going to talk about this, if you don't like it you might wanna leave, I'll let you know when I'm done". Could you explain further some examples of trigger warnings IRL that you've dealt with, because I assume there aren't widespread studies about this sort of thing and you seem to have a vastly different experience than mine. I'd like to understand it.
    - ihavedna 11y ago
      A lot of these conversations about these concepts seems to me to be made by people who have 1) never been triggered emotionally in a situation, public or private, 2) have never actually participated in safe space discussions. Outsider perception/view. The discussion is primarily about how people perceive the idea of a safe space over the actual experience of it. I don't think it's very useful, it just reinforces peoples' perceptions of others without actually engaging with those peoples and concepts/experiences directly.
      - marrs 11y ago
        Everyone has been triggered emotionally in a situation. I can't believe that anyone can even get through childhood without experiencing an emotional trigger of some sort. I think we can all relate to this. As for safe spaces, this is fine if we're talking about a room at university, but if we're talking about making a university itself a "safe space" then forget about it. It's a public place where people have to live their lives.
- scintill76 11y ago
  > But they're not triggers because you're not actually triggered by them, as opposed to a person who was raped not appreciating rape jokes because it makes their PTSD real bad. But this is the point -- how prevalent are actual psychological triggers and PTSD, compared to the price of "safe spaces" etc? The examples given are not all that contrived compared to the ones people successfully use to silence each other, regardless of how scientifically accurate they may not be. Do we rely on mental health professionals to give certificates of trigger, or do we err on the side of bowing to every claim of offense and trauma? The GP demonstrated the absurdity of the latter, and I think the former is untenable too. The middle ground is "Try to be nice and have a thick skin", I guess.
  - SolaceQuantum 11y ago
    I agree with that. I only disagree with putting up a caricature/straw man and discussing based on that. There's no point in having a discussion if the tools being used to discuss are flawed.
- drumdance 11y ago
  If you have PTSD you should be in therapy, not dictating what others can and can't say in a public forum committed to the ideals of free speech. I knew a girl in college who had been violently raped and it obviously had a profoundly traumatic impact on her. She needed help. However, the solution was not to avoid teaching about The Rape of Lucretia.

imaginenore 11y ago

Except they won't care about your triggers. SJWs / feminists have very specific agendas, and anything that gets in their way is immediately labeled as racist / misogynist, and they accuse you of hating women, they try to get yoi fired, etc. I went through that.

SolaceQuantum 11y ago

But they're not triggers because you're not actually triggered by them, as opposed to a person who was raped not appreciating rape jokes because it makes their PTSD real bad. As much as I disapprove of the caricatureizing of the concept of not being a rude person and the extreme positions that are being taken by the students, I feel it's still important to recognize they are young adults navigating these heavy concepts of balancing censorship and unacceptable behavior that deserves derision such as shouting slurs at people. Being condescending and dismissive of the entire concept just comes off as a rather extreme reaction to young people being what they've always been and exploring the society's boundaries that they live in and seeing what negatives they can change in their own circles. Once they actually get out of university I'm sure it'll be fine, as every generation has been one way or another.

th667223 11y ago
But you dont see into my head and can not say if I have a PTSD or not. It is like saying what form of suffering is worse, or what religion is right. Anyway I believe that it is already covered well. There is anti harassment law. And treating rape victim badly is fast way to loose friends. We are not talking about tiny fraction of people, but majority of population has some skeleton in the closet. Stats says that up to 25% women are rape victims, should all of them get a safe space? Also does this cover men? Prison rape jokes are quite popular on mainstream TV. And it is still socially acceptable to say that 12 year old boy "got lucky" with older lady. And how about war veterans with PTSD?
- SolaceQuantum 11y ago
  I don't believe you adressed my point within the context of my point in response to a facetious caricature of trigger warning as an extreme response to the concept of having trigger warnings.
  - th667223 11y ago
    I made edit and added first paragraph, just after this was submitted. I believe my response covers it. It is very expensive or impossible to provide safe space for everyone in its current form. And if we provide safe spaces, we should probably start at prisons, which have much harsher conditions than universities.
    - SolaceQuantum 11y ago
      I agree with that point. I only disagree with caricaturization of a viewpoint you disagree with. I will ask, is there much wrong with a group of people organizing a safe space for themselves? It's impossible to make a public space "safe" but is it possible for individual groups to make spaces for themselves IRL? For example, my research university had an area in which LGBTQ people had meetups for bi people, LGBTQ of color, etc. I found that perfectly possible to exist.
      - th667223 11y ago
        There is a difference between private safe space, and turning PUBLIC space into PRIVATE safe space.
barry-cotter 11y ago
He's condescending and dismissive of the entire concept because actual PTSD triggers are not the point of trigger warnings. They're barely even marginal examples of trigger warnings. Trigger warnings are about suppression of speech. Religious students don't get trigger warnings for courses that treat their views as anywhere between foolish and evil. Classical liberals don't get trigger warnings for their sociology, cultural anthropology or social psychology courses, despite the fact that all those disciplines have faculty that are overwhelmingly leftist. There's a great deal of diversity of opinion in those departments but it's diversity of leftist opinion. People aren't stupid. Trigger warnings aren't used in a way that has any correspondence to PTSD triggers. They're used as a stick to beat political opinions of the losing faction with, currently the right.
- SolaceQuantum 11y ago
  Wow, this is completely different than my understanding and viewing trigger warnings being used. They were used to simply say "hey I'm going to talk about this, if you don't like it you might wanna leave, I'll let you know when I'm done". Could you explain further some examples of trigger warnings IRL that you've dealt with, because I assume there aren't widespread studies about this sort of thing and you seem to have a vastly different experience than mine. I'd like to understand it.
  - ihavedna 11y ago
    A lot of these conversations about these concepts seems to me to be made by people who have 1) never been triggered emotionally in a situation, public or private, 2) have never actually participated in safe space discussions. Outsider perception/view. The discussion is primarily about how people perceive the idea of a safe space over the actual experience of it. I don't think it's very useful, it just reinforces peoples' perceptions of others without actually engaging with those peoples and concepts/experiences directly.
    - marrs 11y ago
      Everyone has been triggered emotionally in a situation. I can't believe that anyone can even get through childhood without experiencing an emotional trigger of some sort. I think we can all relate to this. As for safe spaces, this is fine if we're talking about a room at university, but if we're talking about making a university itself a "safe space" then forget about it. It's a public place where people have to live their lives.
scintill76 11y ago
> But they're not triggers because you're not actually triggered by them, as opposed to a person who was raped not appreciating rape jokes because it makes their PTSD real bad. But this is the point -- how prevalent are actual psychological triggers and PTSD, compared to the price of "safe spaces" etc? The examples given are not all that contrived compared to the ones people successfully use to silence each other, regardless of how scientifically accurate they may not be. Do we rely on mental health professionals to give certificates of trigger, or do we err on the side of bowing to every claim of offense and trauma? The GP demonstrated the absurdity of the latter, and I think the former is untenable too. The middle ground is "Try to be nice and have a thick skin", I guess.
- SolaceQuantum 11y ago
  I agree with that. I only disagree with putting up a caricature/straw man and discussing based on that. There's no point in having a discussion if the tools being used to discuss are flawed.
drumdance 11y ago
If you have PTSD you should be in therapy, not dictating what others can and can't say in a public forum committed to the ideals of free speech. I knew a girl in college who had been violently raped and it obviously had a profoundly traumatic impact on her. She needed help. However, the solution was not to avoid teaching about The Rape of Lucretia.