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Given that much of the definition of speciation these days is the inability to produce fertile offspring with high likelihood, it sounds like they're right on t

Given that much of the definition of speciation these days is the inability to produce fertile offspring with high likelihood, it sounds like they're right on the nose. Something like one mule (horse-donkey hybrid) in tens of thousands is fertile, having by chance received just the right combination of chromosomes to be able to reproduce. But the rest are sterile. The rare successful interbreeding doesn't make horses and donkeys the same species either, despite being closely related. (In their case, IIRC, the infertility of hybrids has to do with differing chromosome counts between horses and donkeys.) So we can have some Neanderthal genes (whether from prior to y-chromosome differentiation or from the rare successful interbreeding or from successful and fertile but rare female offspring) but still be separate species. Besides, it's oft cited that we share 98% of our DNA with chimps, and nobody's claiming that we're the same species.

danieltillett 11y ago
The definition of a species is not the inability to produce fertile offspring. Certainly if you can't produce fertile offspring then you are a different species, but having fertile offspring does not mean you are the same species. Many humans (all non Africans) are a hybrid between two different species - all this result is telling us is that Africans and Neanderthals really are two different species.
- euei3i3i 11y ago
  You've made this claim before. It's so extraordinary that either we all would have learned it in school or Nature would have published it and in addition it would have been in all the major media. Claiming that blacks are a different species, not even a different race, is some next level Hitler / KKK / etc. shit. But basically, I just think you don't know what you're talking about. For example, I just typed "species" into my search box and Google handily provided the following from Wikipedia: > A species is often defined as the largest group of organisms in which two individuals are capable of reproducing fertile offspring, typically using sexual reproduction. Go try and fix Wikipedia if you wish to spread nonsense.
  - danieltillett 11y ago
    I think you missed the “often" in your quote from wiki. This study is telling us that Africans and Neanderthals are not able to produce fertile male offspring when a male Neanderthal reproduces with a African female. This is a common occurrence when two different species breed. I do agree that it is extraordinary that the meaning of this discovery is not recognised more widely, but please do not place words in my mouth as to what this means.
  - mdellabitta 11y ago
    > Claiming that blacks are a different species, not even a different race, is some next level Hitler / KKK / etc. shit. I may be missing something, but the claim I've read around the Internet is that "Africans" are the only pure Human group, and are a different species from Neanderthals, while other Human groups have a small percentage of Neanderthal genes. Whether that's true or not, it seems like a far less problematic claim than the one you mention.

danieltillett 11y ago

The definition of a species is not the inability to produce fertile offspring. Certainly if you can't produce fertile offspring then you are a different species, but having fertile offspring does not mean you are the same species. Many humans (all non Africans) are a hybrid between two different species - all this result is telling us is that Africans and Neanderthals really are two different species.

euei3i3i 11y ago
You've made this claim before. It's so extraordinary that either we all would have learned it in school or Nature would have published it and in addition it would have been in all the major media. Claiming that blacks are a different species, not even a different race, is some next level Hitler / KKK / etc. shit. But basically, I just think you don't know what you're talking about. For example, I just typed "species" into my search box and Google handily provided the following from Wikipedia: > A species is often defined as the largest group of organisms in which two individuals are capable of reproducing fertile offspring, typically using sexual reproduction. Go try and fix Wikipedia if you wish to spread nonsense.
- danieltillett 11y ago
  I think you missed the “often" in your quote from wiki. This study is telling us that Africans and Neanderthals are not able to produce fertile male offspring when a male Neanderthal reproduces with a African female. This is a common occurrence when two different species breed. I do agree that it is extraordinary that the meaning of this discovery is not recognised more widely, but please do not place words in my mouth as to what this means.
- mdellabitta 11y ago
  > Claiming that blacks are a different species, not even a different race, is some next level Hitler / KKK / etc. shit. I may be missing something, but the claim I've read around the Internet is that "Africans" are the only pure Human group, and are a different species from Neanderthals, while other Human groups have a small percentage of Neanderthal genes. Whether that's true or not, it seems like a far less problematic claim than the one you mention.