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> “You’re not going to get proof that we’re not in a simulation, because any evidence that we get could be simulated,” Chalmers said. This is where the argumen

> “You’re not going to get proof that we’re not in a simulation, because any evidence that we get could be simulated,” Chalmers said. This is where the argument starts to sound like creationist claims that god put the bones of dinosaurs on Earth just to test our faith.

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odonnellryan 11y ago
Maybe the only universe where we can absolutely prove we're not in a simulation is one where we are in fact in a simulation.
breuleux 11y ago
Well... what kind of evidence could demonstrate a universe isn't simulated? Continuousness, perhaps, but I don't think it is possible to prove that a universe isn't discrete unless you can measure with infinite precision. Even if it was possible, a simulation could certainly be continuous with the proper hardware. Similarly, a real universe certainly could be non-continuous, so I don't think the question is even relevant either way.
- theoh 11y ago
  I think you may be missing the point of that specific statement. It's conceivable that we might discover that we are living in a simulation. On the other hand, trying to prove conclusively that we're not is futile.
valine 11y ago
As someone with a conservative upbringing, I can't say I've heard that argument. In my experience the most common explanation is that the dinosaurs died in Noah's flood along with the rest of the animals. The dinosaurs that survived on the ark were unable to adapt to the new environment and went extinct shortly after. While I don't doubt the "God put dinosaur bones here to test our faith" argument has been used by Christians, I can't imagine it's very prevalent.
- justinlardinois 11y ago
  I recall an episode of The Simpsons where Flanders says something to that effect; I assumed that it was a parody of creationists rather than an actual, common belief.
- brianbarker 11y ago
  I heard it as a mormon growing up.
  - bluedino 11y ago
    My mother asked me around 15 years of age if I "believed in dinosaurs"
  - grahamburger 11y ago
    I don't think I ever heard this growing up as a Mormon, at least not as something considered as a serious belief. My Aunt quipped once how silly it was that my Granpda (also a Mormon) believed that 'the Jews planted dinosaur bones to discredit Christianity' - he's dead now and I don't know if he actually believed that, but it's possible that he did. My experience growing up as a Mormon is that questions of how exactly God created the world are mostly left up to science. I haven't seen any hints of evolutionary science being considered 'taboo' with any seriousness in quite a long time.
- skissane 11y ago
  The Omphalos hypothesis holds that God made the universe approximately 6000 years ago, but made it look like it was many billions of years older. I don't think it has ever been the majority view among creationists, but some have advocated it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omphalos_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omphalos_hypothesis
  - virmundi 11y ago
    The interesting thing is, as it pertains to this general story, that it's not really a God-made-it-look-old (as in to trick us) issue, but that's a side effect. When I think about the simulation hypothesis, I picture Skyrim. You boot it up, load the maps, etc, and you see a picture perfect (on the PC anyway) world that looks millions of years old. Mountains are weathered. There are pre-existing historical races that died out thousands of years ago. Portions of the terrain are covered in deep snows. There's rain; it might even be raining randomly when you spawn from a save. Bethseda isn't lying when they make the place old. It's that way because it has to be. Who knows, our reality for God could be the same thing? Picture the Wind Fish from Link's Awakening. Whole island with people, places and attack chickens. It was a simulation in the mind of the Wind Fish.
tjbrennan 11y ago
I lost some respect for Chalmers when I heard his TED talk that suggested consciousness was a fundamental force. He has some good ideas about consciousness but also a bit too mystical for me to agree with.

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odonnellryan 11y ago

Maybe the only universe where we can absolutely prove we're not in a simulation is one where we are in fact in a simulation.

breuleux 11y ago

Well... what kind of evidence could demonstrate a universe isn't simulated? Continuousness, perhaps, but I don't think it is possible to prove that a universe isn't discrete unless you can measure with infinite precision. Even if it was possible, a simulation could certainly be continuous with the proper hardware. Similarly, a real universe certainly could be non-continuous, so I don't think the question is even relevant either way.

theoh 11y ago
I think you may be missing the point of that specific statement. It's conceivable that we might discover that we are living in a simulation. On the other hand, trying to prove conclusively that we're not is futile.

valine 11y ago

As someone with a conservative upbringing, I can't say I've heard that argument. In my experience the most common explanation is that the dinosaurs died in Noah's flood along with the rest of the animals. The dinosaurs that survived on the ark were unable to adapt to the new environment and went extinct shortly after. While I don't doubt the "God put dinosaur bones here to test our faith" argument has been used by Christians, I can't imagine it's very prevalent.

justinlardinois 11y ago
I recall an episode of The Simpsons where Flanders says something to that effect; I assumed that it was a parody of creationists rather than an actual, common belief.
brianbarker 11y ago
I heard it as a mormon growing up.
- bluedino 11y ago
  My mother asked me around 15 years of age if I "believed in dinosaurs"
- grahamburger 11y ago
  I don't think I ever heard this growing up as a Mormon, at least not as something considered as a serious belief. My Aunt quipped once how silly it was that my Granpda (also a Mormon) believed that 'the Jews planted dinosaur bones to discredit Christianity' - he's dead now and I don't know if he actually believed that, but it's possible that he did. My experience growing up as a Mormon is that questions of how exactly God created the world are mostly left up to science. I haven't seen any hints of evolutionary science being considered 'taboo' with any seriousness in quite a long time.
skissane 11y ago
The Omphalos hypothesis holds that God made the universe approximately 6000 years ago, but made it look like it was many billions of years older. I don't think it has ever been the majority view among creationists, but some have advocated it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omphalos_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omphalos_hypothesis
- virmundi 11y ago
  The interesting thing is, as it pertains to this general story, that it's not really a God-made-it-look-old (as in to trick us) issue, but that's a side effect. When I think about the simulation hypothesis, I picture Skyrim. You boot it up, load the maps, etc, and you see a picture perfect (on the PC anyway) world that looks millions of years old. Mountains are weathered. There are pre-existing historical races that died out thousands of years ago. Portions of the terrain are covered in deep snows. There's rain; it might even be raining randomly when you spawn from a save. Bethseda isn't lying when they make the place old. It's that way because it has to be. Who knows, our reality for God could be the same thing? Picture the Wind Fish from Link's Awakening. Whole island with people, places and attack chickens. It was a simulation in the mind of the Wind Fish.

tjbrennan 11y ago

I lost some respect for Chalmers when I heard his TED talk that suggested consciousness was a fundamental force. He has some good ideas about consciousness but also a bit too mystical for me to agree with.