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Many normal ICE cars only get 350-450 miles of range which also drops significantly when driving is dominated by heavy acceleration or even highway driving > 70

Many normal ICE cars only get 350-450 miles of range which also drops significantly when driving is dominated by heavy acceleration or even highway driving > 70mph. This "writer" has no room to criticize writers.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
Yeah but you can refuel ICE in 5 minutes. Not half an hour to an hour, not counting the wait in line for the charger. He explained all that.
- shifter 11y ago
  A typical stop duration at a supercharger is 15 minutes.
  - dragontamer 11y ago
    The typical supercharger stop doesn't recharge from 10 to 80% either. Tesla's official marketing has a 10% to 80% charge at 40 minutes, and 10% to 100% at 75 minutes. https://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger https://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger For a 90 kWh battery. I guess the Model 3 will have a smaller battery and less range, but practically speaking, filling up from empty is 5 minutes with Gasoline, and 75-minutes with the Supercharger (all the way to 100%) You can get more efficient by filling up only to 80% charge over 40 minutes of charging... but that's still very far away from your claim of 15 minutes.
    - ambrice 11y ago
      Right. So it tells you that typically even when superchargers are needed the driver doesn't need 100% to get where they're going. In order to need the 100% you have to be driving 400 miles in one trip. The author acts like this is a huge deal. As if every Tesla driver will be filling up their Tesla at a supercharger as often as every other driver fills up their car at a gas station. It seems like a very minor point to most. 400 miles is about the limit of what I'll drive on a road trip, anything more than that I'll take a plane. So if I had a Tesla and I took a vacation once a year within 400 miles, it would mean spending 0 minutes filling up my car for 51 weeks out of the year, and adding an extra hour on each end of the trip. I'd probably be annoyed at the delay if it didn't coincide with a meal but it would probably just remind me how awesome it was that I never have to stop the other 51 weeks..
      - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        ...in a warm climate, on level ground. Anywhere else and range drops, recharging happens routinely.
        ambrice 11y ago
        Range drops by how much? How do you know that recharging happens "routinely" and what frequency is "routinely"? I drive 35 miles to work, more than most anyone I know. Range could drop 50% from the stated 200 miles and I still wouldn't need to charge before I got home.
      - dragontamer 11y ago
        First off, I don't like the author's writing style. Its definitely too hyperbolic for my tastes. I think the benefits of charging an electric vehicle at home are great. But I'm still concerned about this long-trip thing, especially because long-trips mean that I'm away from the infrastructure that I've built up myself. (Is there a 240V charger at the hotel I'm staying at? or is it only 110V which only charges ~20 miles overnight in 8 hours?? Reports are 3mi / hour charge times on 110V. https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/charging-110v-outlet https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/charging-110v-ou...)
        ambrice 11y ago
        It is a concern, but for me (which I'm extrapolating to "most" using this technique: https://xkcd.com/605/ https://xkcd.com/605/) it seems very minor. It's not a concern at all for the first car in a two-car household. It's a very slight concern if I was also buying a second Tesla for the wife. Some long trips we'd be able to take in the Tesla, and some road trips we'd have to rent a car to take. But I already have to do that when we take a vacation that involves a flight.
        dragontamer 11y ago
        Single-car house, whatever I get I'm going to have to use for all purposes in my life.
FireBeyond 11y ago
Or turning on the heater? And the Supercharger that refuels your Tesla in 5 minutes is ... where?
- russelluresti 11y ago
  The funny thing about the wait time that everyone keeps talking about is that, apparently, no one actually cares about waiting. Tesla piloted their battery swap program over a year ago, where you could swap out your battery for a fully charged one in under 2 minutes. You'd get all your range back faster than you could refuel a gas car. Want to know what happened? No one used it. Because no one cares about refueling in under 5 minutes if a supercharge station takes 15 - 30 or you can just plug in at home. It's literally not a thing people (in general) care about. I don't know how to phrase this any other way. NO. ONE. CARES.
  - FireBeyond 11y ago
    Haha. Yes. You could swap your battery in under two minutes. If: you had pre-made an appointment, first. And: you paid to use it. And: you ignored the fact that the pilot program was only in one location, and that location was meant solely to service SF-LA drivers on I-5, but was 15 miles from the freeway, so 2 minutes, plus a 45 minute round trip). And: you ignored the chargers across the street from the battery swap program. This is pretty disingenuous. If I was Elon Musk and I wanted to prove how little people "cared" about the time of a "2 minute battery swap", all of the above variables are pretty much how I'd set my pilot program for guaranteed failure. Source: http://fortune.com/2015/06/10/teslas-battery-swap-is-dead/ http://fortune.com/2015/06/10/teslas-battery-swap-is-dead/
  - ambrice 11y ago
    Were the batteries brand new? Were the battery swap stations everywhere that had a supercharger? Did everyone know about it? It seems like there are possibly some other explanations than people didn't care about the recharge wait. I know I wouldn't swap out my known good batteries for some dodgy unknown batteries from the last Tesla that went through here just for convenience, but that wouldn't mean that I didn't care about the inconvenience..
dsfyu404ed 11y ago
The only cars that get that kind of range are boxy compacts being driven at 80+mph and mostly because they place such a premium on space that the gas tank winds up being 10gal or smaller. Those cars also have an out the door price of under 20k even when moderately optioned. Nothing that's remotely like the 3 gets that kind of range.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago

Yeah but you can refuel ICE in 5 minutes. Not half an hour to an hour, not counting the wait in line for the charger. He explained all that.

shifter 11y ago
A typical stop duration at a supercharger is 15 minutes.
- dragontamer 11y ago
  The typical supercharger stop doesn't recharge from 10 to 80% either. Tesla's official marketing has a 10% to 80% charge at 40 minutes, and 10% to 100% at 75 minutes. https://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger https://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger For a 90 kWh battery. I guess the Model 3 will have a smaller battery and less range, but practically speaking, filling up from empty is 5 minutes with Gasoline, and 75-minutes with the Supercharger (all the way to 100%) You can get more efficient by filling up only to 80% charge over 40 minutes of charging... but that's still very far away from your claim of 15 minutes.
  - ambrice 11y ago
    Right. So it tells you that typically even when superchargers are needed the driver doesn't need 100% to get where they're going. In order to need the 100% you have to be driving 400 miles in one trip. The author acts like this is a huge deal. As if every Tesla driver will be filling up their Tesla at a supercharger as often as every other driver fills up their car at a gas station. It seems like a very minor point to most. 400 miles is about the limit of what I'll drive on a road trip, anything more than that I'll take a plane. So if I had a Tesla and I took a vacation once a year within 400 miles, it would mean spending 0 minutes filling up my car for 51 weeks out of the year, and adding an extra hour on each end of the trip. I'd probably be annoyed at the delay if it didn't coincide with a meal but it would probably just remind me how awesome it was that I never have to stop the other 51 weeks..
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      ...in a warm climate, on level ground. Anywhere else and range drops, recharging happens routinely.
      - ambrice 11y ago
        Range drops by how much? How do you know that recharging happens "routinely" and what frequency is "routinely"? I drive 35 miles to work, more than most anyone I know. Range could drop 50% from the stated 200 miles and I still wouldn't need to charge before I got home.
    - dragontamer 11y ago
      First off, I don't like the author's writing style. Its definitely too hyperbolic for my tastes. I think the benefits of charging an electric vehicle at home are great. But I'm still concerned about this long-trip thing, especially because long-trips mean that I'm away from the infrastructure that I've built up myself. (Is there a 240V charger at the hotel I'm staying at? or is it only 110V which only charges ~20 miles overnight in 8 hours?? Reports are 3mi / hour charge times on 110V. https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/charging-110v-outlet https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/charging-110v-ou...)
      - ambrice 11y ago
        It is a concern, but for me (which I'm extrapolating to "most" using this technique: https://xkcd.com/605/ https://xkcd.com/605/) it seems very minor. It's not a concern at all for the first car in a two-car household. It's a very slight concern if I was also buying a second Tesla for the wife. Some long trips we'd be able to take in the Tesla, and some road trips we'd have to rent a car to take. But I already have to do that when we take a vacation that involves a flight.
        dragontamer 11y ago
        Single-car house, whatever I get I'm going to have to use for all purposes in my life.

FireBeyond 11y ago

Or turning on the heater? And the Supercharger that refuels your Tesla in 5 minutes is ... where?

russelluresti 11y ago
The funny thing about the wait time that everyone keeps talking about is that, apparently, no one actually cares about waiting. Tesla piloted their battery swap program over a year ago, where you could swap out your battery for a fully charged one in under 2 minutes. You'd get all your range back faster than you could refuel a gas car. Want to know what happened? No one used it. Because no one cares about refueling in under 5 minutes if a supercharge station takes 15 - 30 or you can just plug in at home. It's literally not a thing people (in general) care about. I don't know how to phrase this any other way. NO. ONE. CARES.
- FireBeyond 11y ago
  Haha. Yes. You could swap your battery in under two minutes. If: you had pre-made an appointment, first. And: you paid to use it. And: you ignored the fact that the pilot program was only in one location, and that location was meant solely to service SF-LA drivers on I-5, but was 15 miles from the freeway, so 2 minutes, plus a 45 minute round trip). And: you ignored the chargers across the street from the battery swap program. This is pretty disingenuous. If I was Elon Musk and I wanted to prove how little people "cared" about the time of a "2 minute battery swap", all of the above variables are pretty much how I'd set my pilot program for guaranteed failure. Source: http://fortune.com/2015/06/10/teslas-battery-swap-is-dead/ http://fortune.com/2015/06/10/teslas-battery-swap-is-dead/
- ambrice 11y ago
  Were the batteries brand new? Were the battery swap stations everywhere that had a supercharger? Did everyone know about it? It seems like there are possibly some other explanations than people didn't care about the recharge wait. I know I wouldn't swap out my known good batteries for some dodgy unknown batteries from the last Tesla that went through here just for convenience, but that wouldn't mean that I didn't care about the inconvenience..

dsfyu404ed 11y ago

The only cars that get that kind of range are boxy compacts being driven at 80+mph and mostly because they place such a premium on space that the gas tank winds up being 10gal or smaller. Those cars also have an out the door price of under 20k even when moderately optioned. Nothing that's remotely like the 3 gets that kind of range.