6 ms·

Things They Don't Teach You in School

82 points by shawndumas 11y ago

Radim 11y ago
An impressive collection of tips! Highly relevant plug: for students / fresh grads wishing to bridge the academia-industry gap, we offer a free Incubator programme [1]. There we mentor talented students from partner universities on such practical matters. We do specialise in machine learning, but most of the tips here apply 100%. Surprisingly -- at least to many ML students coming from academia -- even (especially?) the "be boring" bit of advice. People can get so hyped up about the latest ML fads that they miss the forest for the trees, so to speak. [1] http://rare-technologies.com/incubator/ http://rare-technologies.com/incubator/
- 8note 11y ago
  That looks pretty interesting; I might apply. One question about the non-optional meetings: when are they? If I am in PST, will I have to skip sleep or work to attend?
  - Radim 11y ago
    Lev, our main community liaison, lives in London. We've had students from all over the world though: from Brazil to Europe to India to Japan. So I wouldn't worry about this too much. If the will and the motivation is there, we'll find a time that makes everyone happy.
    - 8note 11y ago
      Alrighty. In that case, I will send in an app. Word2Vec looks both interesting and challenging.
brianmurphy 11y ago
A very condescending read. While anyone can pick a few tips out of such a long article, the strange "know what I know" + SJW/BLMisms make it a piece worth skipping. He might want to look in the mirror when pondering why more women aren't in computer science programs.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- faitswulff 11y ago
  It's advice sourced from his Twitter network for a talk he was asked to give at a school club, so I fail to see where condescension or unnecessary ego plays a part other than the fact that he is literally a technology professional addressing an audience of CS students. Moreover, the "SJW" (social justice warrior) and Black Lives Matter references are quite sparse, so you can skip the one section and single bullet point, respectively, should you find them not to your liking.
unabst 11y ago
So I guess this was a comedy piece? Some more serious issues I've noticed: #1. They don't teach you that teachers are paid to put up with you. Employers aren't paid to put up with you. They're paid to fire people who waste their time and interfere with the work that needs to get done. #2. They don't teach you how to not waste people's time. Some of the group activities that force mingling are the worst. Most real work does not require communication, especially at entry level positions. Take instructions once, and just deliver what is being asked of you. #3. They don't teach you what's being asked of you. Students show up at class, deliver homework and take exams, with the occasional project maybe. Work is all exams. It's about your constant output that is monetarily valued by your employer, which is always being examined. Homework and exams have no value. But the degree has value, right? #4. They don't teach you the degree has little value. The list can go much longer, but even if you're a Harvard PhD, until you get this, you're a fraud. And even if you're a high school dropout, if you get it, you're in business. Employers don't really care where you're from once you're in the building. They just need things to get done. (The degree acquiring experience can be spectacular for you regardless of where you go actually, but degrees just aren't worth what they used to be, for sure.)
- onion2k 11y ago
  #2. They don't teach you how to not waste people's time. Some of the group activities that force mingling are the worst. Most real work does not require communication, especially at entry level positions. Take instructions once, and just deliver what is being asked of you. That assumes some sort of weird universe where instructions are always perfect. I don't live in that universe. Every person who does paid work of any sort should be questioning their instructions, communicating with their colleagues about the instructions, and giving their manager feedback if the instructions are incomplete or if the situation changes. That applies to everyone from people writing complex software to people paid to literally just dig holes. The notion that communication skills are universally important across all jobs is entirely true.
  - unabst 11y ago
    Communication skills are important, but you need to know when to shut the fuck up. That's what's universally important and entirely true. Instructions are never perfect. It's whether you can get the job done anyway, once you know what is being asked of you, which is mostly a one time initiation. Ever see someone repeatedly asking and questioning what is being asked of them? That's someone who is going to struggle for the rest of their lives in every professional environment someone accidentally put them in. Supervisors don't want to hear about imperfections that you could have worked around yourself. You aren't being paid to call and talk and yap. You're being paid to deliver. Your approach is academic already, and goes to prove my point. Instructions only need to meet you half way. In fact, less the more for you. This is why it's completely academically backwards. The more you get done with fewer instructions, the more valuable you are because you cost less time. Imagine a Postal Worker questioning the features on their mobile device (which clearly suck). They're being paid to work with it, not question it and talk about it. Communication skills are important, but communication itself is an absolute bottleneck in any workflow (with emphasis on flow). Minimize communication volume, and maximize communication value. Work is no excuse to talk. But that doesn't mean all work is anti-academic. Most of it is though. The best academic jobs will always be in academia.
zerooneinfinity 11y ago
Stop trying to be the smartest guy in the room and lighten up. Those are my tips.
c218807 11y ago
>Black lives matter So, how do we stop them from killing each other? You're probably now going to tell me that cops are racist but copy in the USA are assholes no matter your race. https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/...
- cantbecool 11y ago
  Those statistics are eye opening. I wonder why they are never touched upon during the numerous debates during election season in the US.
- ZeroGravitas 11y ago
  I can think of several structural changes the US could make to their society if this was actually a priority for them. The way you phrase the question it appears you can't think of any, even though you go on to immediately mention one from my list: dysfuntional cops. Like the deaths, you seem fatalistic about changing policing, apparently asshole cops are just a fact of life to you rather than a result of broken institutions.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
xiaopingguo 11y ago
Scandinavian languages already have "programmering" for "computering" if you want to sound quaint.
jonjonBoy 11y ago
Leave Donald Trump alone bro.
746F7475 11y ago
> Who here is a feminist? (Two, three hands go up, timidly.) > Wait, let me ask another way around: who here thinks that all people, regardless of gender, have the same rights and should be treated equally? (All hands go up.) > Congratulations, you are all feminists. It's too bad that current feminism/SJW movement has so corrupted the feminism "brand" that I do not feel comfortable identifying as one and probably who more hands don't get raised. The definition given doesn't match what currently feminism is about.
- rubbsdecvik 11y ago
  > It's too bad that current feminism/SJW movement has so corrupted the feminism "brand" I've started to think of the SJ movement as analogous to the GNU/GPL movement. From a high level, it's easy to see it as extreme and difficult to identify with, but if you give it some time and thought, you start to see the merits of the argument. Note, one does not always have to agree to think there are merits. Once I saw SJ advocates in this light, it also became much easier to see that much like the software license debates, there are a spectrum of beliefs; Not all GNU advocates are alike, just like not all SJWs are alike. > The definition given doesn't match what currently feminism is about. I have not seen evidence that this has changed. I have, however, seen opinions that I don't agree with, but ultimately stem from that working premise.
  - fit2rule 11y ago
    I think that all movements have to deal with the agent-provocateur problem, sooner or later - which is to say, any time you make an enemy, if you don't allow your enemy to become you properly, then you will become your enemy. This is what happened with feminist movements: they became the very frothy-mouthed totalitarians they were resisting. Because they didn't do enough to deal with the totalitarians that were attracted to their platform of power, gained in the rising days of the feminist movement, and must now share that platform with a vast array of differing views, somehow aligned with feminism, but nevertheless diluting the goals of very subject and thwarting it in a direction not originally intended. All movements have to deal with this factor, it seems. Its a social one.
  - 11y ago

82 points by shawndumas 11y ago

Radim 11y ago

An impressive collection of tips! Highly relevant plug: for students / fresh grads wishing to bridge the academia-industry gap, we offer a free Incubator programme [1]. There we mentor talented students from partner universities on such practical matters. We do specialise in machine learning, but most of the tips here apply 100%. Surprisingly -- at least to many ML students coming from academia -- even (especially?) the "be boring" bit of advice. People can get so hyped up about the latest ML fads that they miss the forest for the trees, so to speak. [1] http://rare-technologies.com/incubator/ http://rare-technologies.com/incubator/

8note 11y ago
That looks pretty interesting; I might apply. One question about the non-optional meetings: when are they? If I am in PST, will I have to skip sleep or work to attend?
- Radim 11y ago
  Lev, our main community liaison, lives in London. We've had students from all over the world though: from Brazil to Europe to India to Japan. So I wouldn't worry about this too much. If the will and the motivation is there, we'll find a time that makes everyone happy.
  - 8note 11y ago
    Alrighty. In that case, I will send in an app. Word2Vec looks both interesting and challenging.

brianmurphy 11y ago

A very condescending read. While anyone can pick a few tips out of such a long article, the strange "know what I know" + SJW/BLMisms make it a piece worth skipping. He might want to look in the mirror when pondering why more women aren't in computer science programs.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
faitswulff 11y ago
It's advice sourced from his Twitter network for a talk he was asked to give at a school club, so I fail to see where condescension or unnecessary ego plays a part other than the fact that he is literally a technology professional addressing an audience of CS students. Moreover, the "SJW" (social justice warrior) and Black Lives Matter references are quite sparse, so you can skip the one section and single bullet point, respectively, should you find them not to your liking.

unabst 11y ago

So I guess this was a comedy piece? Some more serious issues I've noticed: #1. They don't teach you that teachers are paid to put up with you. Employers aren't paid to put up with you. They're paid to fire people who waste their time and interfere with the work that needs to get done. #2. They don't teach you how to not waste people's time. Some of the group activities that force mingling are the worst. Most real work does not require communication, especially at entry level positions. Take instructions once, and just deliver what is being asked of you. #3. They don't teach you what's being asked of you. Students show up at class, deliver homework and take exams, with the occasional project maybe. Work is all exams. It's about your constant output that is monetarily valued by your employer, which is always being examined. Homework and exams have no value. But the degree has value, right? #4. They don't teach you the degree has little value. The list can go much longer, but even if you're a Harvard PhD, until you get this, you're a fraud. And even if you're a high school dropout, if you get it, you're in business. Employers don't really care where you're from once you're in the building. They just need things to get done. (The degree acquiring experience can be spectacular for you regardless of where you go actually, but degrees just aren't worth what they used to be, for sure.)

onion2k 11y ago
#2. They don't teach you how to not waste people's time. Some of the group activities that force mingling are the worst. Most real work does not require communication, especially at entry level positions. Take instructions once, and just deliver what is being asked of you. That assumes some sort of weird universe where instructions are always perfect. I don't live in that universe. Every person who does paid work of any sort should be questioning their instructions, communicating with their colleagues about the instructions, and giving their manager feedback if the instructions are incomplete or if the situation changes. That applies to everyone from people writing complex software to people paid to literally just dig holes. The notion that communication skills are universally important across all jobs is entirely true.
- unabst 11y ago
  Communication skills are important, but you need to know when to shut the fuck up. That's what's universally important and entirely true. Instructions are never perfect. It's whether you can get the job done anyway, once you know what is being asked of you, which is mostly a one time initiation. Ever see someone repeatedly asking and questioning what is being asked of them? That's someone who is going to struggle for the rest of their lives in every professional environment someone accidentally put them in. Supervisors don't want to hear about imperfections that you could have worked around yourself. You aren't being paid to call and talk and yap. You're being paid to deliver. Your approach is academic already, and goes to prove my point. Instructions only need to meet you half way. In fact, less the more for you. This is why it's completely academically backwards. The more you get done with fewer instructions, the more valuable you are because you cost less time. Imagine a Postal Worker questioning the features on their mobile device (which clearly suck). They're being paid to work with it, not question it and talk about it. Communication skills are important, but communication itself is an absolute bottleneck in any workflow (with emphasis on flow). Minimize communication volume, and maximize communication value. Work is no excuse to talk. But that doesn't mean all work is anti-academic. Most of it is though. The best academic jobs will always be in academia.

zerooneinfinity 11y ago

Stop trying to be the smartest guy in the room and lighten up. Those are my tips.

c218807 11y ago

>Black lives matter So, how do we stop them from killing each other? You're probably now going to tell me that cops are racist but copy in the USA are assholes no matter your race. https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/...

cantbecool 11y ago
Those statistics are eye opening. I wonder why they are never touched upon during the numerous debates during election season in the US.
ZeroGravitas 11y ago
I can think of several structural changes the US could make to their society if this was actually a priority for them. The way you phrase the question it appears you can't think of any, even though you go on to immediately mention one from my list: dysfuntional cops. Like the deaths, you seem fatalistic about changing policing, apparently asshole cops are just a fact of life to you rather than a result of broken institutions.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

xiaopingguo 11y ago

Scandinavian languages already have "programmering" for "computering" if you want to sound quaint.

jonjonBoy 11y ago

Leave Donald Trump alone bro.

746F7475 11y ago

> Who here is a feminist? (Two, three hands go up, timidly.) > Wait, let me ask another way around: who here thinks that all people, regardless of gender, have the same rights and should be treated equally? (All hands go up.) > Congratulations, you are all feminists. It's too bad that current feminism/SJW movement has so corrupted the feminism "brand" that I do not feel comfortable identifying as one and probably who more hands don't get raised. The definition given doesn't match what currently feminism is about.

rubbsdecvik 11y ago
> It's too bad that current feminism/SJW movement has so corrupted the feminism "brand" I've started to think of the SJ movement as analogous to the GNU/GPL movement. From a high level, it's easy to see it as extreme and difficult to identify with, but if you give it some time and thought, you start to see the merits of the argument. Note, one does not always have to agree to think there are merits. Once I saw SJ advocates in this light, it also became much easier to see that much like the software license debates, there are a spectrum of beliefs; Not all GNU advocates are alike, just like not all SJWs are alike. > The definition given doesn't match what currently feminism is about. I have not seen evidence that this has changed. I have, however, seen opinions that I don't agree with, but ultimately stem from that working premise.
- fit2rule 11y ago
  I think that all movements have to deal with the agent-provocateur problem, sooner or later - which is to say, any time you make an enemy, if you don't allow your enemy to become you properly, then you will become your enemy. This is what happened with feminist movements: they became the very frothy-mouthed totalitarians they were resisting. Because they didn't do enough to deal with the totalitarians that were attracted to their platform of power, gained in the rising days of the feminist movement, and must now share that platform with a vast array of differing views, somehow aligned with feminism, but nevertheless diluting the goals of very subject and thwarting it in a direction not originally intended. All movements have to deal with this factor, it seems. Its a social one.
- 11y ago