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World's First Methanol-Powered Tankers Set for Delivery

12 points by protomyth 11y ago

rdtsc 11y ago
> The ability to run on a sulphur-free fuel offers great potential and provides innovative solutions for the world’s energy needs What are the incentives here. Can't imagine the price of ethanol being cheaper than marine diesel. Even if prices are equal the energy density and specific energy is about half that of diesel. Or are they anticipating legislation to ban sulfur fuel (or maybe at least get tax incentives in some places for using non-sulfur fuels)?
- protomyth 11y ago
  They seem to be a bit worried about how much pollution shipping actually puts out. http://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/shipping/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/shipping/index_... It didn't get attention in the Paris meeting, but it probably will given the amount.
- ams6110 11y ago
  It's methanol, not ethanol. Not sure what the price difference is though.
- SixSigma 11y ago
  The European shippers want to push the industry for less emissions and use of "Bunker Fuel". They're concerns were ignored at the Paris Summit http://shippingwatch.com/carriers/article8296860.ece#.VmyPdSiKB_E.linkedin http://shippingwatch.com/carriers/article8296860.ece#.VmyPdS...
chrismartin 11y ago
Is this substantially different than the greenwashing of "flex-fuel" cars that can burn ethanol, but hardly anyone uses it because of economics and scale problems with growing corn?
- stcredzero 11y ago
  There are other feedstocks for ethanol besides corn.
- ams6110 11y ago
  METHanol. Not ethanol. It's not made from corn.
  - dsfyu404ed 11y ago
    The ship won't need to stop for sleep if you run it on METHanonl(TM). Its teeth will rot out pretty quick though.
- dsfyu404ed 11y ago
  They're just designing some flexibility into it. It's pretty much an everyone wins situation. The cheapest fuel may vary country to country for a variety of reasons. Building an engine that can burn whatever (most diesels, with a little extra engineering work can burn whatever) is just killing a lot of birds with one stone. You can tell your customer that the ship will run on whatever so so that they can always gas up with whatever is cheapest and when they want to sell the ship down the road it'll likely be able to run on whatever is in vogue without expensive modifications. You can turn around and tell the media that it can be run on whatever is cleanest if that's what the owner desires. Since industrial engines aren't competing for peak power/torque numbers losing a little bit by not optimizing for a particular fuel isn't a meaningful downside

12 points by protomyth 11y ago

rdtsc 11y ago

> The ability to run on a sulphur-free fuel offers great potential and provides innovative solutions for the world’s energy needs What are the incentives here. Can't imagine the price of ethanol being cheaper than marine diesel. Even if prices are equal the energy density and specific energy is about half that of diesel. Or are they anticipating legislation to ban sulfur fuel (or maybe at least get tax incentives in some places for using non-sulfur fuels)?

protomyth 11y ago
They seem to be a bit worried about how much pollution shipping actually puts out. http://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/shipping/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/shipping/index_... It didn't get attention in the Paris meeting, but it probably will given the amount.
ams6110 11y ago
It's methanol, not ethanol. Not sure what the price difference is though.
SixSigma 11y ago
The European shippers want to push the industry for less emissions and use of "Bunker Fuel". They're concerns were ignored at the Paris Summit http://shippingwatch.com/carriers/article8296860.ece#.VmyPdSiKB_E.linkedin http://shippingwatch.com/carriers/article8296860.ece#.VmyPdS...

chrismartin 11y ago

Is this substantially different than the greenwashing of "flex-fuel" cars that can burn ethanol, but hardly anyone uses it because of economics and scale problems with growing corn?

stcredzero 11y ago
There are other feedstocks for ethanol besides corn.
ams6110 11y ago
METHanol. Not ethanol. It's not made from corn.
- dsfyu404ed 11y ago
  The ship won't need to stop for sleep if you run it on METHanonl(TM). Its teeth will rot out pretty quick though.
dsfyu404ed 11y ago
They're just designing some flexibility into it. It's pretty much an everyone wins situation. The cheapest fuel may vary country to country for a variety of reasons. Building an engine that can burn whatever (most diesels, with a little extra engineering work can burn whatever) is just killing a lot of birds with one stone. You can tell your customer that the ship will run on whatever so so that they can always gas up with whatever is cheapest and when they want to sell the ship down the road it'll likely be able to run on whatever is in vogue without expensive modifications. You can turn around and tell the media that it can be run on whatever is cleanest if that's what the owner desires. Since industrial engines aren't competing for peak power/torque numbers losing a little bit by not optimizing for a particular fuel isn't a meaningful downside