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This is a very odd blog post in my opinion coming from MS. It acknowledges the pain of dealing with source distributions on Windows and gives excellent advice

by tdicola 11y ago

This is a very odd blog post in my opinion coming from MS. It acknowledges the pain of dealing with source distributions on Windows and gives excellent advice on how to overcome the issues. However I think it really misses the forest through the trees. If MS was really serious about Python being a first class citizen on Windows then fix the root problem which the post acknowledges, ".... Because Windows has a different culture, most people do not have (or need) a compiler." Why doesn't Visual C++ express come installed or as a super easy to install dependency on Windows? Howabout MS pushing to change the culture of Windows to one where compiling from source isn't a big deal and is as easy as it is on Linux? Also it's super helpful that this post lays out where to find precompiled versions of Python packages for Windows, but again it's something if MS were really serious about they would step up their game significantly. Why is it that some random person, Christoph Gohlke (and as a side note many thanks to them, they have undoubtedly helped thousands of people), is the maintainer of one of the most important resources for Python users on Windows? How about MS steps up and dedicates resources to ensuring precompiled and tested python binary packages are available for all packages? Finally I think the message that people should bug Python library owners to get windows wheels up is very poor advice. Library maintainers have enough to deal with and piling on more frivolous issues won't help. What if the maintainers don't even have Windows machines to build binary packages with (and again, why doesn't MS step up to provide them with said Windows machines/licenses)? Badgering the maintainers isn't going to make things better. If MS is serious about python on Windows they need to step up their support and make the platform better.

xenophonf 11y ago
Why doesn't Visual C++ express come installed or as a super easy to install dependency on Windows? In theory that's what VCForPython27.msi (and the others) are supposed to be. And in theory it isn't too difficult to download and install the Express or Community editions of Visual Studio 2015. A Windows feature that installed the matching C++ compiler plus platform SDK would be freaking AWESOME. as a side note many thanks to them No kidding. Us Python on Windows users really owe them a debt of gratitude.
- x1798DE 11y ago
  Last time I tried doing this, it was very unclear to me if there was a way to download the VS compiler without giving an email address or logging in or something to Microsoft. In the end, this was one of the big drivers that pushed me over the edge to switching to 100% Linux.
  - dr_zoidberg 11y ago
    This is the link where you download the MSVC for Python 2.7 installer: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=44266 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=442... Once it loads, close the survey popup thay may or may not appear and hit the download button. No need to login or put your email or anything. I thought you were going to say that even with it installed, there are rare ocassions where the system doesn't acknowledge the existance of MSVC, for example Cython. I thought the post might give a solution to that particular issue, but so far it seems nothing has changed in that aspect.
    - x1798DE 11y ago
      Well, I don't need it now because I'm off Windows permanently, and I would use Python 3.x even if I were, but it's good to know that something like this is available. I was sorta wondering if the situation had changed since I looked about 18 months ago.
marmaduke 11y ago
It's not first class support but it goes a long to patch potholes in a bumpy road to installing extensions from source. Motivated but unkowledgeable users are much more likely to succeed with this info while the benefit between just a blog post and having it built in to OS may be negligible (while the technical investment of building the compiler into the OS could be significant). By the way MS provides free official VMs for testing IE but work just fine for building wheels.
- tdicola 11y ago
  Yeah I've used those VMs and it's nice but they're only valid for 90 days and IMHO the licensing is kind of murky (it says they're only for testing IE). You also don't have a choice of 32bit vs. 64bit VM (I've noticed the win 7 VM is 32 bit, the win 10 VM is 64 bit for example). There really should just be 100% free for any use VMs that never expire for library maintainers to use.

by tdicola 11y ago

xenophonf 11y ago

Why doesn't Visual C++ express come installed or as a super easy to install dependency on Windows? In theory that's what VCForPython27.msi (and the others) are supposed to be. And in theory it isn't too difficult to download and install the Express or Community editions of Visual Studio 2015. A Windows feature that installed the matching C++ compiler plus platform SDK would be freaking AWESOME. as a side note many thanks to them No kidding. Us Python on Windows users really owe them a debt of gratitude.

x1798DE 11y ago
Last time I tried doing this, it was very unclear to me if there was a way to download the VS compiler without giving an email address or logging in or something to Microsoft. In the end, this was one of the big drivers that pushed me over the edge to switching to 100% Linux.
- dr_zoidberg 11y ago
  This is the link where you download the MSVC for Python 2.7 installer: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=44266 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=442... Once it loads, close the survey popup thay may or may not appear and hit the download button. No need to login or put your email or anything. I thought you were going to say that even with it installed, there are rare ocassions where the system doesn't acknowledge the existance of MSVC, for example Cython. I thought the post might give a solution to that particular issue, but so far it seems nothing has changed in that aspect.
  - x1798DE 11y ago
    Well, I don't need it now because I'm off Windows permanently, and I would use Python 3.x even if I were, but it's good to know that something like this is available. I was sorta wondering if the situation had changed since I looked about 18 months ago.

marmaduke 11y ago

It's not first class support but it goes a long to patch potholes in a bumpy road to installing extensions from source. Motivated but unkowledgeable users are much more likely to succeed with this info while the benefit between just a blog post and having it built in to OS may be negligible (while the technical investment of building the compiler into the OS could be significant). By the way MS provides free official VMs for testing IE but work just fine for building wheels.

tdicola 11y ago
Yeah I've used those VMs and it's nice but they're only valid for 90 days and IMHO the licensing is kind of murky (it says they're only for testing IE). You also don't have a choice of 32bit vs. 64bit VM (I've noticed the win 7 VM is 32 bit, the win 10 VM is 64 bit for example). There really should just be 100% free for any use VMs that never expire for library maintainers to use.