9 ms·

I really dislike the glorification of criminals in the British press. Here you have an apparently charming man who knowingly caused a great deal of violence an

I really dislike the glorification of criminals in the British press. Here you have an apparently charming man who knowingly caused a great deal of violence and human misery with his trade. His masterstroke[1] was having the audacity to blame the laws of the time for the violence in his trade - and getting people to agree that, yes, he has no responsibility for his actions, it's the laws that should be blamed! And that's without even touching on his business associates; how you can call yourself Mr Nice while teaming up with the IRA and still look at yourself in the mirror every morning is beyond me. [1] In later life. Staying out of prison by claiming to be an MI6/SIS informant was pretty clever, given that MI6 wouldn't even officially confirm their own existence until well into the 90s, let alone publicly comment on specific individuals and cases.

zeemonkee3 11y ago
Regardless of personal opinions about Marks, the war of drugs has created an insanely profitable black market that is ideal for funding terrorism and other unsavoury activity.
GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
There's a reason Roland went to Ireland along with Lebanon, Palestine, and Berkeley.
retox 11y ago
>who knowingly caused a great deal of violence and human misery with his trade Are you talking about the same Howard Marks?
- tim333 11y ago
  I was thinking that. All he did was import a good deal of cannabis which is now becoming legal in many places. I'm not sure he was involved in any violence. He did seem rather wrecked when I saw him talk which was probably not a great ad for smoking loads.
  - tablewatcher 11y ago
    He had involvement with the IRA to smuggle drugs through Ireland, they used the money to buy guns to kill loyalists.
    - dabeeeenster 11y ago
      Sounds more like the CIA
      - tome 11y ago
        Then you may have a strangely rosy view of the kinds of organizations that the CIA is working against.
        ethanbond 11y ago
        Like democratically elected governments in sovereign states?
  - alex_hitchins 11y ago
    Working with the IRA was enough for me to dislike the man. People seem to forget the IRA used to blow people up quite a bit.
    - tim333 11y ago
      I googled the IRA involvement at it looks like he didn't work with them directly but he worked with another smuggler, James McCann who did smuggle arms to the IRA.
    - oneeyedpigeon 11y ago
      Most governments around the world have "blown people up quite a bit". Is anyone who works with any government now immoral?
      - alex_hitchins 11y ago
kriro 11y ago
""" I really dislike the glorification of criminals in the British press.""" It should be noted that he wrote for The Guardian and this is an article from the Guardian website.
- kagamine 11y ago
  It should also be noted that that fact is duly noted in the obituary itself. For fairness.
kagamine 11y ago
Have you read any of Marks' books? I know they only tell his side of the story, but the type is there on the page to be scrutinized. He was genuinely approached by MI6 to offer/collect intel, he may have hammed it up in court for his own benefit, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. He also disliked the IRA connections, apparently, but smuggling via Ireland was easier than via France/mainland Europe. In the politics of the time, and perhaps from being Welsh, it was easier to excuse the IRA, I think a fair few Welsh and Scottish subjects of HM Elizabeth II would have had sympathies with the "cause", although not with the manner in which it was being fought for (violence versus Scotland's wait of 30-40 more years for a referendum; some Irishmen obviously wanted a resolution within their lifetime). The Mr. Nice moniker comes from having bought a passport/identity from a real person by that name (Nice as in the French town), which he then traveled under and adopted. It was genuinely his name for a while. MI6 was known to exist even it not confirmed by the govt. Ever heard of James Bond? Myth rooted in fact, every UK citizen who has read Flemming/Greene/etc knew there was an MI6. Whatever you think of Marks, he does have a folk hero side that appeals to the British, someone who found his way into the establishment, but then rejected the banality of that life and instead lived a life most of us haven't the gall to even attempt. I think that is why he is appreciated by the British press.
- k-mcgrady 11y ago
  >> "violence versus Scotland's wait of 30-40 more years for a referendum; some Irishmen obviously wanted a resolution within their lifetime" I don't think you can really draw a comparison between the two. The Troubles didn't start simply because the Irish wanted to control their own affairs they started due to the fact that Irish Catholics were being heavily discriminated against.
  - kagamine 11y ago
    As a Scot who watched the 'troubles' on the news week after week, year after year, I respectfully disagree. Many Scots I believe felt that the Irish had the courage to do what we did not: to take the matter into our own hands. Those same people also held the contrary view that violence was not the answer, and that common sense would prevail. They can now feel venerated in that they took the higher ground. Recent events in Scotland however, display that the political situation/plight is not different enough that you can merely dismiss it as you do, almost half the population of Scotland want self-rule (for the record, I'm not among them). The details may differ but the desire is equal.
tremon 11y ago
I really dislike the glorification of criminals in the British press. I agree. I had the same reaction when I first heard about the cosy nickname for England's own ISIS terrorist, "Jihadi John". knowingly caused a great deal of violence and human misery [and then] having the audacity to blame the laws of the time for the violence in his trade As another commenter noted, public opinion is shifting in favour of his assessment about drugs.
DerDangDerDang 11y ago
To his credit, when I saw him speak in the late nineties and some in the audience cheered when Jim McCann (his IRA contact) was mentioned, he stopped and spent several minutes explaining that Jim McCann was a horrible human being.
- alex_hitchins 11y ago
  So horrible that he did business with him.
  - junto 11y ago
    To be fair, the both sides were historically full of despicable acts. The IRA were criminals first and political terrorists second. The entire IRA operations revolved around profiteering from guns, drugs, prostitution and protection rackets. If you are working in a criminal underground in Ireland there wasn't/isn't much choice but to deal with them.
- asddubs 11y ago
  I can understand that reaction. In his book, he seems a bit like a fun goof, when you don't factor in that it's describing reality
asddubs 11y ago
I've read mr nice. He talks about buying a brothel somewhere in asia, and then later selling it when he finds out that the fathers of the women sold into prostitution liked to take their virginities themselves first. But the fact that they were being sold into prostitution in the first place seemed not to bother the nicest drug smuggler in the world.
- hackerboos 11y ago
  It was in Don Muang airport Bangkok fronted as a massage parlour if I recall correctly. [1] https://books.google.ca/books?id=vT_TNsre6YEC&pg=PA318&lpg=PA318&dq=mr+nice+massage+parlour+bangkok&source=bl&ots=r1m6BJSepu&sig=YE2kxI3hbIDgzD5YeCCjDqUaqYE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJvZKTzYbMAhWLNT4KHW6XAwAQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=mr%20nice%20massage%20parlour%20bangkok&f=false https://books.google.ca/books?id=vT_TNsre6YEC&pg=PA318&lpg=P...

zeemonkee3 11y ago

Regardless of personal opinions about Marks, the war of drugs has created an insanely profitable black market that is ideal for funding terrorism and other unsavoury activity.

GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago

There's a reason Roland went to Ireland along with Lebanon, Palestine, and Berkeley.

retox 11y ago

>who knowingly caused a great deal of violence and human misery with his trade Are you talking about the same Howard Marks?

tim333 11y ago
I was thinking that. All he did was import a good deal of cannabis which is now becoming legal in many places. I'm not sure he was involved in any violence. He did seem rather wrecked when I saw him talk which was probably not a great ad for smoking loads.
- tablewatcher 11y ago
  He had involvement with the IRA to smuggle drugs through Ireland, they used the money to buy guns to kill loyalists.
  - dabeeeenster 11y ago
    Sounds more like the CIA
    - tome 11y ago
      Then you may have a strangely rosy view of the kinds of organizations that the CIA is working against.
      - ethanbond 11y ago
        Like democratically elected governments in sovereign states?
- alex_hitchins 11y ago
  Working with the IRA was enough for me to dislike the man. People seem to forget the IRA used to blow people up quite a bit.
  - tim333 11y ago
    I googled the IRA involvement at it looks like he didn't work with them directly but he worked with another smuggler, James McCann who did smuggle arms to the IRA.
  - oneeyedpigeon 11y ago
    Most governments around the world have "blown people up quite a bit". Is anyone who works with any government now immoral?
    - alex_hitchins 11y ago

kriro 11y ago

""" I really dislike the glorification of criminals in the British press.""" It should be noted that he wrote for The Guardian and this is an article from the Guardian website.

kagamine 11y ago
It should also be noted that that fact is duly noted in the obituary itself. For fairness.

kagamine 11y ago

Have you read any of Marks' books? I know they only tell his side of the story, but the type is there on the page to be scrutinized. He was genuinely approached by MI6 to offer/collect intel, he may have hammed it up in court for his own benefit, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. He also disliked the IRA connections, apparently, but smuggling via Ireland was easier than via France/mainland Europe. In the politics of the time, and perhaps from being Welsh, it was easier to excuse the IRA, I think a fair few Welsh and Scottish subjects of HM Elizabeth II would have had sympathies with the "cause", although not with the manner in which it was being fought for (violence versus Scotland's wait of 30-40 more years for a referendum; some Irishmen obviously wanted a resolution within their lifetime). The Mr. Nice moniker comes from having bought a passport/identity from a real person by that name (Nice as in the French town), which he then traveled under and adopted. It was genuinely his name for a while. MI6 was known to exist even it not confirmed by the govt. Ever heard of James Bond? Myth rooted in fact, every UK citizen who has read Flemming/Greene/etc knew there was an MI6. Whatever you think of Marks, he does have a folk hero side that appeals to the British, someone who found his way into the establishment, but then rejected the banality of that life and instead lived a life most of us haven't the gall to even attempt. I think that is why he is appreciated by the British press.

k-mcgrady 11y ago
>> "violence versus Scotland's wait of 30-40 more years for a referendum; some Irishmen obviously wanted a resolution within their lifetime" I don't think you can really draw a comparison between the two. The Troubles didn't start simply because the Irish wanted to control their own affairs they started due to the fact that Irish Catholics were being heavily discriminated against.
- kagamine 11y ago
  As a Scot who watched the 'troubles' on the news week after week, year after year, I respectfully disagree. Many Scots I believe felt that the Irish had the courage to do what we did not: to take the matter into our own hands. Those same people also held the contrary view that violence was not the answer, and that common sense would prevail. They can now feel venerated in that they took the higher ground. Recent events in Scotland however, display that the political situation/plight is not different enough that you can merely dismiss it as you do, almost half the population of Scotland want self-rule (for the record, I'm not among them). The details may differ but the desire is equal.

tremon 11y ago

I really dislike the glorification of criminals in the British press. I agree. I had the same reaction when I first heard about the cosy nickname for England's own ISIS terrorist, "Jihadi John". knowingly caused a great deal of violence and human misery [and then] having the audacity to blame the laws of the time for the violence in his trade As another commenter noted, public opinion is shifting in favour of his assessment about drugs.

DerDangDerDang 11y ago

To his credit, when I saw him speak in the late nineties and some in the audience cheered when Jim McCann (his IRA contact) was mentioned, he stopped and spent several minutes explaining that Jim McCann was a horrible human being.

alex_hitchins 11y ago
So horrible that he did business with him.
- junto 11y ago
  To be fair, the both sides were historically full of despicable acts. The IRA were criminals first and political terrorists second. The entire IRA operations revolved around profiteering from guns, drugs, prostitution and protection rackets. If you are working in a criminal underground in Ireland there wasn't/isn't much choice but to deal with them.
asddubs 11y ago
I can understand that reaction. In his book, he seems a bit like a fun goof, when you don't factor in that it's describing reality

asddubs 11y ago

I've read mr nice. He talks about buying a brothel somewhere in asia, and then later selling it when he finds out that the fathers of the women sold into prostitution liked to take their virginities themselves first. But the fact that they were being sold into prostitution in the first place seemed not to bother the nicest drug smuggler in the world.

hackerboos 11y ago
It was in Don Muang airport Bangkok fronted as a massage parlour if I recall correctly. [1] https://books.google.ca/books?id=vT_TNsre6YEC&pg=PA318&lpg=PA318&dq=mr+nice+massage+parlour+bangkok&source=bl&ots=r1m6BJSepu&sig=YE2kxI3hbIDgzD5YeCCjDqUaqYE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJvZKTzYbMAhWLNT4KHW6XAwAQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=mr%20nice%20massage%20parlour%20bangkok&f=false https://books.google.ca/books?id=vT_TNsre6YEC&pg=PA318&lpg=P...