7 ms·

Has anyone got a checklist for package managers? There are so many it'd be nice to be able to predict what problems they're going to face in the future (and hop

Has anyone got a checklist for package managers? There are so many it'd be nice to be able to predict what problems they're going to face in the future (and hopefully prompt better design in the process)

a-nikolaev 11y ago
[jk] a package manager of package managers is coming to rule them all )
- noobermin 11y ago
  Will the package manager manage itself?
  - andkenneth 11y ago
    Don't most package managers do that themselves anyway? Like npm and pip seem to. Or are they doing something different behind the scenes.
    - cyphar 11y ago
      Zypper, apt, dpkg, pacman, etc. all manage themselves.
  - a-nikolaev 11y ago
    bootstrapping package manager, yes )
  - archgoon 11y ago
    It will manage all the package managers that do not manage themselves.
  - agumonkey 11y ago
    package calculus
  - simondedalus 11y ago
    it should be called russell's package manager.
- saulrh 11y ago
  Given how many non-obvious but easily-solvable problems there are with package management... this might actually not be a terrible idea. The biggest issue would be making it sufficiently flexible to integrate with anything that wants packages, including things like video game modding platforms and programming languages with in-language namespacing/module/package features.
- benlaud 11y ago
  Theoretically, apt-get/rpm can be a package manager of package manager. (e.g use them to install npm/qpm)
  - dvirsky 11y ago
    that's certainly how I install pip on a new machine
- dvirsky 11y ago
  An Uber for package managers
- dagw 11y ago
  You mean like this?: http://xkcd.com/1654/ http://xkcd.com/1654/
  - helb 11y ago
    And this. https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/
zdw 11y ago
Rules: 1. Use the system package manager. 2. See rule #1. In all seriousness, there needs to be a good way to [spray your stuff](http://dilbert.com/strip/2013-06-09 http://dilbert.com/strip/2013-06-09) all over a system with the rest of the system knowing about it. FPM does a decent job of this. There is some research out there on common things that this kind of code gets wrong: https://www.cs.arizona.edu/stork/packagemanagersecurity/ https://www.cs.arizona.edu/stork/packagemanagersecurity/
- snuxoll 11y ago
  This is especially true with native code, between apt/yum/zypper/pacman on Linux and pacman as part of msys2 on Windows you really should be using your system package manager (if you need to, build your own packages, it really isn't that much harder than any of these language-specific ones, I swear).
  - roel_v 11y ago
    There was a tool I used years ago that would build rpm's from makefile-based build files. Basically, you would do './configure && make && [app name] make install' and it would then run a dummy 'make install', monitor syscalls that did copying etc. and make an rpm from that. That was easy enough to make packages from tarballs. Anything more complicated (like, having to actually know the package file formats) - forget it. Anyone know the name of this tool? It was unmaintained for a long time already when I stopped using Linux, and that was 10 years ago.
    - hierro 11y ago
      I do remember using that tool to publish the very first aMule packages for Debian. I think it was called watchinstall.
      - Sander_Marechal 11y ago
        It's called `checkinstall`: https://wiki.debian.org/CheckInstall https://wiki.debian.org/CheckInstall
nathan7 11y ago
https://medium.com/@sdboyer/so-you-want-to-write-a-package-manager-4ae9c17d9527 https://medium.com/@sdboyer/so-you-want-to-write-a-package-m... would be a good start

a-nikolaev 11y ago

[jk] a package manager of package managers is coming to rule them all )

noobermin 11y ago
Will the package manager manage itself?
- andkenneth 11y ago
  Don't most package managers do that themselves anyway? Like npm and pip seem to. Or are they doing something different behind the scenes.
  - cyphar 11y ago
    Zypper, apt, dpkg, pacman, etc. all manage themselves.
- a-nikolaev 11y ago
  bootstrapping package manager, yes )
- archgoon 11y ago
  It will manage all the package managers that do not manage themselves.
- agumonkey 11y ago
  package calculus
- simondedalus 11y ago
  it should be called russell's package manager.
saulrh 11y ago
Given how many non-obvious but easily-solvable problems there are with package management... this might actually not be a terrible idea. The biggest issue would be making it sufficiently flexible to integrate with anything that wants packages, including things like video game modding platforms and programming languages with in-language namespacing/module/package features.
benlaud 11y ago
Theoretically, apt-get/rpm can be a package manager of package manager. (e.g use them to install npm/qpm)
- dvirsky 11y ago
  that's certainly how I install pip on a new machine
dvirsky 11y ago
An Uber for package managers
dagw 11y ago
You mean like this?: http://xkcd.com/1654/ http://xkcd.com/1654/
- helb 11y ago
  And this. https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/

zdw 11y ago

Rules: 1. Use the system package manager. 2. See rule #1. In all seriousness, there needs to be a good way to [spray your stuff](http://dilbert.com/strip/2013-06-09 http://dilbert.com/strip/2013-06-09) all over a system with the rest of the system knowing about it. FPM does a decent job of this. There is some research out there on common things that this kind of code gets wrong: https://www.cs.arizona.edu/stork/packagemanagersecurity/ https://www.cs.arizona.edu/stork/packagemanagersecurity/

snuxoll 11y ago
This is especially true with native code, between apt/yum/zypper/pacman on Linux and pacman as part of msys2 on Windows you really should be using your system package manager (if you need to, build your own packages, it really isn't that much harder than any of these language-specific ones, I swear).
- roel_v 11y ago
  There was a tool I used years ago that would build rpm's from makefile-based build files. Basically, you would do './configure && make && [app name] make install' and it would then run a dummy 'make install', monitor syscalls that did copying etc. and make an rpm from that. That was easy enough to make packages from tarballs. Anything more complicated (like, having to actually know the package file formats) - forget it. Anyone know the name of this tool? It was unmaintained for a long time already when I stopped using Linux, and that was 10 years ago.
  - hierro 11y ago
    I do remember using that tool to publish the very first aMule packages for Debian. I think it was called watchinstall.
    - Sander_Marechal 11y ago
      It's called `checkinstall`: https://wiki.debian.org/CheckInstall https://wiki.debian.org/CheckInstall

nathan7 11y ago

https://medium.com/@sdboyer/so-you-want-to-write-a-package-manager-4ae9c17d9527 https://medium.com/@sdboyer/so-you-want-to-write-a-package-m... would be a good start