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I think it depends. Not having access to temporary credit at all is better than pay day loans. Of course, I'm saying that from my proverbial ivory tower. Phi

I think it depends. Not having access to temporary credit at all is better than pay day loans. Of course, I'm saying that from my proverbial ivory tower. Philosophically I don't support banning those things, but I'll be damned if they're not fucking evil incarnate.

vkou 11y ago
Not having access to temporary credit means that any hiccup in your finances has you facing eviction, late bill penalties, and in the case of unpaid fines, possibly jail time. Having access to temporary credit means that same problem, but next month.
- Consultant32452 11y ago
  Having access to incredibly high interest temporary credit means having the same problem next month and this new problem of having to pay off the high interest credit bill. You're generally not going to be evicted for a temporary hiccup. Late bill penalties are almost certainly going to be less than the payday loan fees. I have mixed feelings about the making bail bit.
  - vkou 11y ago
    My bounced check fee is $30 from my landlord, $30 from my bank. My late rent fee is $30. My late utility fee is $5, but if I paid by a bounced check, that would be $35. In other cities, it could be much higher. The fee for not paying a fine on time can be a weekend stint in jail, whereby you will get charged for room and board. The fee for not being able to pay for car repairs is losing your job. The fee for not paying for needed medical attention when you aren't on insurance (Which, despite obamacare, many poor people lack) can be crippling. Poor people, in aggregate, aren't stupid - they wouldn't use payday loans if the alternatives weren't worse. Yes, it shifts the problem a month out, and puts you in debt for ~$100 dollars. So would juggling your missed payments (Meanwhile, giving you a black mark against your landlord). That's still better then having the problem today. And who knows? Next month, you may be a millionaire. Or dead. Better worry about that next month. If you want to kill payday loans, the best way to do that is by giving everyone a living wage/income.
    - majewsky 11y ago
      > The fee for not paying a fine on time can be a weekend stint in jail, whereby you will get charged for room and board. looks at this in complete puzzlement I'm constantly amazed at just how broken the US system is in almost every possible way. And just for the record, there is no such thing as payday loans in Europe. At the very least not in Germany. The first time I heard of these was when John Oliver did a segment on them.
    - Consultant32452 11y ago
      I agree poor people aren't stupid, you're projecting that on me. People who go to payday loan places are generally desperate. And desperation can often lead to irrational decisions. It seems like the major contention between us is that you believe that payday loans are good because in a vanishingly small percentage of cases they provide a net good. Virtually all of the data shows that in aggregate payday loans are a net bad.
tomjen3 11y ago
Payday loans are better than paying for your electricity to be turned on again and to replace all the groceries that spoiled in your fridge, because you were fifty dollars short on your utility bill.
morgante 11y ago
Payday loans serve a purpose. Thinking the poor use them because they're irrational or stupid is just elitist. A payday loan might have an atrocious interest rate, but it's better than getting kicked out of your apartment because you're $30 short on rent or getting thrown in jail for a parking ticket.
- Consultant32452 11y ago
  Nope, the payday loan is still a raw deal. You're not going to get kicked out of your apartment for being $30 short on your rent. There's a reason states are cracking down on these pay day loan places and it's not because the government hates poor people.

vkou 11y ago

Not having access to temporary credit means that any hiccup in your finances has you facing eviction, late bill penalties, and in the case of unpaid fines, possibly jail time. Having access to temporary credit means that same problem, but next month.

Consultant32452 11y ago
Having access to incredibly high interest temporary credit means having the same problem next month and this new problem of having to pay off the high interest credit bill. You're generally not going to be evicted for a temporary hiccup. Late bill penalties are almost certainly going to be less than the payday loan fees. I have mixed feelings about the making bail bit.
- vkou 11y ago
  My bounced check fee is $30 from my landlord, $30 from my bank. My late rent fee is $30. My late utility fee is $5, but if I paid by a bounced check, that would be $35. In other cities, it could be much higher. The fee for not paying a fine on time can be a weekend stint in jail, whereby you will get charged for room and board. The fee for not being able to pay for car repairs is losing your job. The fee for not paying for needed medical attention when you aren't on insurance (Which, despite obamacare, many poor people lack) can be crippling. Poor people, in aggregate, aren't stupid - they wouldn't use payday loans if the alternatives weren't worse. Yes, it shifts the problem a month out, and puts you in debt for ~$100 dollars. So would juggling your missed payments (Meanwhile, giving you a black mark against your landlord). That's still better then having the problem today. And who knows? Next month, you may be a millionaire. Or dead. Better worry about that next month. If you want to kill payday loans, the best way to do that is by giving everyone a living wage/income.
  - majewsky 11y ago
    > The fee for not paying a fine on time can be a weekend stint in jail, whereby you will get charged for room and board. looks at this in complete puzzlement I'm constantly amazed at just how broken the US system is in almost every possible way. And just for the record, there is no such thing as payday loans in Europe. At the very least not in Germany. The first time I heard of these was when John Oliver did a segment on them.
  - Consultant32452 11y ago
    I agree poor people aren't stupid, you're projecting that on me. People who go to payday loan places are generally desperate. And desperation can often lead to irrational decisions. It seems like the major contention between us is that you believe that payday loans are good because in a vanishingly small percentage of cases they provide a net good. Virtually all of the data shows that in aggregate payday loans are a net bad.

tomjen3 11y ago

Payday loans are better than paying for your electricity to be turned on again and to replace all the groceries that spoiled in your fridge, because you were fifty dollars short on your utility bill.

morgante 11y ago

Payday loans serve a purpose. Thinking the poor use them because they're irrational or stupid is just elitist. A payday loan might have an atrocious interest rate, but it's better than getting kicked out of your apartment because you're $30 short on rent or getting thrown in jail for a parking ticket.

Consultant32452 11y ago
Nope, the payday loan is still a raw deal. You're not going to get kicked out of your apartment for being $30 short on your rent. There's a reason states are cracking down on these pay day loan places and it's not because the government hates poor people.