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I witnessed a scam similar to "Horse Trading" while playing Team Fortress 2. In the game, players can wear cosmetic items. It's just for fun, but the items can

I witnessed a scam similar to "Horse Trading" while playing Team Fortress 2. In the game, players can wear cosmetic items. It's just for fun, but the items can still be worth tens or even hundreds of dollars. A player joined the server that I was playing on and after a bit asked if anyone had a certain low-value hat. He said that he was willing to pay the equivalent of $20 for it. No one did (no doubt he had made sure before asking.) He left the server and a few minutes later another player joined wearing that exact hat! A bidding war began and the second player left approximately $10 richer.

oh_sigh 11y ago
Horse trading, as reinterpreted by the streets "Can't con an honest john": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTB929OoqI4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTB929OoqI4
- JacobAldridge 11y ago
  As they say in the excellent British series Hustle, the art of the Con is finding someone who wants something for nothing, and selling them nothing for something.
ArcticCelt 11y ago
People used that scam on WoW. People would type in the chat channel that they want to buy some item for 200 golds. Meanwhile they put for sale that item on the auction house for 100 golds. Some people would then rush to buy the one on the auction house to resell it to the potential buyer but of course the potential buyer is now nowhere to be seeing.
- tamana 11y ago
  Are there games my kids can play and safely get burned and learned by scams like this, using play money not expensive credits from real money?
  - voxic11 11y ago
    Runescape is the best for this. Learned everything I ever needed to learn about scamming from that game... well that and eve online.
    - Robelius 11y ago
      I remember the number of scammers started increasing when Jagex removed the buy limit from the grand exchange. Lost 150 mil within the span of a week from scammers around that time. I'll never forget that. Luckily it's what got me to quit.
    - daveth3cat 11y ago
      Trimming Rune pl8 4 free
  - wavefunction 11y ago
    WoW apparently. As long as your kids don't have the means to purchase gold from Chinese gold farmers that should satisfy your criteria. They'll just be out hours of repetitive grinding or daily missions, which may induce the learning process you're looking for.
    - Cpoll 11y ago
      There's not a lot of scamming in WoW, since the GMs actively punish it. I imagine they'll even punish you for the "horse trading" scam if you do it blatantly enough.
  - Kiro 11y ago
    Ultima Online was the best (pre-Trammel). I've never seen so many elaborate and innovative scams. On top of that, you also got to learn how to avoid being robbed of all your belongings if you went to the wrong neighborhood. It was extremely brutal since there was literally no protection of your gear. Not only could you lose all the items on you if you got mugged or killed. If a scammer, thief or murderer got ahold of your house key they could clean out your whole house meaning you would lose everything. I hope to experience the same rush in another game in the future.
patmcguire 11y ago
There's a version of this on EVE where you open up buy orders for something not offered locally for 10x what it's worth. Then you transfer all your money to an alt character, so you can't fulfill it, then your alt brings in the item and offers to sell it for 5x.
- tamana 11y ago
  Is that a bug or a feature, that Eve checks your wealth to open a buy order, but not to keep it open?
  - kl4m 11y ago
    The margin trading scam is considered a "feature" by the devs at the moment, and has existed for a long time. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Scams_in_EVE_Online#The_Margin_Trading_Scam http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Scams_in_EVE_Online#The_Margin...
    - chrischen 11y ago
      Makes sense, since this happens in real life and is what caused the housing market to collapse.
- bsamuels 11y ago
  that's the first I've heard of that scam - fascinating. right now I've got a scammy bit of economic warfare that I wage against aggressive traders that's proven to be profitable and good at getting people off the market: -Locate an item the target is trading in that has a 20-30% buy->sell order spread -Have a large amount of the item that you want to use to disrupt the other trader - preferably you've bought this item via a buy order and liquidating it at 10% under market price still brings in profit -Overcut the target's buy orders by 0.01 ISK. Go back and forth a few times, you're trying to establish a rhythym. -Now start overcutting the target's buy orders by 5% of the buy->sell order spread -The buy->sell order spread should start rapidly closing - it's absolutely stunning how rarely targets notice that their profit margin is shrinking as you overcut each other back and forth. -Once you have the target's buy orders within 5% of the lowest sell order price, unload all of your stored good into his buy order. -- This method produces multiple positive outcomes: -Fast liquidation of an asset, sometimes in many multiples of daily moving volume -Drives drives the price of the item down without having to babysit the orders yourself (the target will do it for you now that he's stuck with all of your item!) -Discourages margin traders from doing business in certain markets
kqr 11y ago
> no doubt he had made sure before asking Technically no need for that. If someone ends up having it, you just log off that server and try a different one. Pretend it was a disconnect or something. Who'd ever know what you were trying to do?

oh_sigh 11y ago

Horse trading, as reinterpreted by the streets "Can't con an honest john": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTB929OoqI4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTB929OoqI4

JacobAldridge 11y ago
As they say in the excellent British series Hustle, the art of the Con is finding someone who wants something for nothing, and selling them nothing for something.

ArcticCelt 11y ago

People used that scam on WoW. People would type in the chat channel that they want to buy some item for 200 golds. Meanwhile they put for sale that item on the auction house for 100 golds. Some people would then rush to buy the one on the auction house to resell it to the potential buyer but of course the potential buyer is now nowhere to be seeing.

tamana 11y ago
Are there games my kids can play and safely get burned and learned by scams like this, using play money not expensive credits from real money?
- voxic11 11y ago
  Runescape is the best for this. Learned everything I ever needed to learn about scamming from that game... well that and eve online.
  - Robelius 11y ago
    I remember the number of scammers started increasing when Jagex removed the buy limit from the grand exchange. Lost 150 mil within the span of a week from scammers around that time. I'll never forget that. Luckily it's what got me to quit.
  - daveth3cat 11y ago
    Trimming Rune pl8 4 free
- wavefunction 11y ago
  WoW apparently. As long as your kids don't have the means to purchase gold from Chinese gold farmers that should satisfy your criteria. They'll just be out hours of repetitive grinding or daily missions, which may induce the learning process you're looking for.
  - Cpoll 11y ago
    There's not a lot of scamming in WoW, since the GMs actively punish it. I imagine they'll even punish you for the "horse trading" scam if you do it blatantly enough.
- Kiro 11y ago
  Ultima Online was the best (pre-Trammel). I've never seen so many elaborate and innovative scams. On top of that, you also got to learn how to avoid being robbed of all your belongings if you went to the wrong neighborhood. It was extremely brutal since there was literally no protection of your gear. Not only could you lose all the items on you if you got mugged or killed. If a scammer, thief or murderer got ahold of your house key they could clean out your whole house meaning you would lose everything. I hope to experience the same rush in another game in the future.

patmcguire 11y ago

There's a version of this on EVE where you open up buy orders for something not offered locally for 10x what it's worth. Then you transfer all your money to an alt character, so you can't fulfill it, then your alt brings in the item and offers to sell it for 5x.

tamana 11y ago
Is that a bug or a feature, that Eve checks your wealth to open a buy order, but not to keep it open?
- kl4m 11y ago
  The margin trading scam is considered a "feature" by the devs at the moment, and has existed for a long time. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Scams_in_EVE_Online#The_Margin_Trading_Scam http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Scams_in_EVE_Online#The_Margin...
  - chrischen 11y ago
    Makes sense, since this happens in real life and is what caused the housing market to collapse.
bsamuels 11y ago
that's the first I've heard of that scam - fascinating. right now I've got a scammy bit of economic warfare that I wage against aggressive traders that's proven to be profitable and good at getting people off the market: -Locate an item the target is trading in that has a 20-30% buy->sell order spread -Have a large amount of the item that you want to use to disrupt the other trader - preferably you've bought this item via a buy order and liquidating it at 10% under market price still brings in profit -Overcut the target's buy orders by 0.01 ISK. Go back and forth a few times, you're trying to establish a rhythym. -Now start overcutting the target's buy orders by 5% of the buy->sell order spread -The buy->sell order spread should start rapidly closing - it's absolutely stunning how rarely targets notice that their profit margin is shrinking as you overcut each other back and forth. -Once you have the target's buy orders within 5% of the lowest sell order price, unload all of your stored good into his buy order. -- This method produces multiple positive outcomes: -Fast liquidation of an asset, sometimes in many multiples of daily moving volume -Drives drives the price of the item down without having to babysit the orders yourself (the target will do it for you now that he's stuck with all of your item!) -Discourages margin traders from doing business in certain markets

kqr 11y ago

> no doubt he had made sure before asking Technically no need for that. If someone ends up having it, you just log off that server and try a different one. Pretend it was a disconnect or something. Who'd ever know what you were trying to do?