14 ms·

Its not meaningless. Its millions of tons of plastic less, it may be the 2% margin that matters.

eggy 11y ago
I read the book Guesstimation 2.0 by Lawrence Weinstein a few years ago, and it had this breakdown. This is not addressing any other fact than how much time people spend worrying about the wrong thing, thinking emotionally rather than rationally or mathematically: "Paper or Plastic? How many plastic bags does the US use in one year? 10 bags per grocery store trip x 2 trips per week x 52 weeks per year = 1000 bags per person per year. 300 x 10^6 people in the U.S. = 300 x 10^11 bags in the US per year. Is this a lot? Compared to what? A roll of bags weighs a few ounces so there are about 200 bags/lb Your 10^3 bags weigh about 5 pounds. The 500 gallons of gasoline you burned last year weighs 4000 pounds (2 tons). Your 10^3 bags are irrelevant. (Just don’t litter)." ...Or use a re-usable bag ;) I want to read "How Bad Are Bananas?: The Carbon Footprint Of Everything" by Mike Berners-Lee. It addresses similar disconnections on how we think about our impact on the climate, and the steps we take to try and do something. For example, people who bike everywhere, but eat foods shipped from all over the world over local produce.
- ageofwant 11y ago
  I commented meaning to address plastic pollution and its direct affect on the biosphere. China's pollution may destroy 98% of foo species, America's plastic may push foo to extinction. I agree that focus are many times misdirected and ineffective, but that's no reason not to try.
  - eggy 11y ago
    The comment was not to negate the impact of plastic bags; it was to illustrate, and I think very much in line with the evidence, of how we misappropriate our attention. The suburban family who pauses at checkout to decide plastic or paper has good intentions, but misplaced intellect. They should be looking at the gas used to and from the store, imported food purchases vs. locally grown, and their own household for energy-efficiency. Yes, plastic, and paper for that matter, are a reasonable item on the list, but the others outweigh it by magnitudes, and the common person thinks 'paper or plastic?'.
- ubernostrum 11y ago
  The thing is, you can make this argument about any individual thing, and the goal is to lead into the (fallacious) conclusion "none of these things make a difference on their own, so the combination of them wouldn't make a difference either".

eggy 11y ago

I read the book Guesstimation 2.0 by Lawrence Weinstein a few years ago, and it had this breakdown. This is not addressing any other fact than how much time people spend worrying about the wrong thing, thinking emotionally rather than rationally or mathematically: "Paper or Plastic? How many plastic bags does the US use in one year? 10 bags per grocery store trip x 2 trips per week x 52 weeks per year = 1000 bags per person per year. 300 x 10^6 people in the U.S. = 300 x 10^11 bags in the US per year. Is this a lot? Compared to what? A roll of bags weighs a few ounces so there are about 200 bags/lb Your 10^3 bags weigh about 5 pounds. The 500 gallons of gasoline you burned last year weighs 4000 pounds (2 tons). Your 10^3 bags are irrelevant. (Just don’t litter)." ...Or use a re-usable bag ;) I want to read "How Bad Are Bananas?: The Carbon Footprint Of Everything" by Mike Berners-Lee. It addresses similar disconnections on how we think about our impact on the climate, and the steps we take to try and do something. For example, people who bike everywhere, but eat foods shipped from all over the world over local produce.

ageofwant 11y ago
I commented meaning to address plastic pollution and its direct affect on the biosphere. China's pollution may destroy 98% of foo species, America's plastic may push foo to extinction. I agree that focus are many times misdirected and ineffective, but that's no reason not to try.
- eggy 11y ago
  The comment was not to negate the impact of plastic bags; it was to illustrate, and I think very much in line with the evidence, of how we misappropriate our attention. The suburban family who pauses at checkout to decide plastic or paper has good intentions, but misplaced intellect. They should be looking at the gas used to and from the store, imported food purchases vs. locally grown, and their own household for energy-efficiency. Yes, plastic, and paper for that matter, are a reasonable item on the list, but the others outweigh it by magnitudes, and the common person thinks 'paper or plastic?'.
ubernostrum 11y ago
The thing is, you can make this argument about any individual thing, and the goal is to lead into the (fallacious) conclusion "none of these things make a difference on their own, so the combination of them wouldn't make a difference either".