4 ms·

Back when seat belt laws where being introduced more than a few people complained that sometimes a person will die in a car accident because of the seat belt. S

by rbobby 11y ago

Back when seat belt laws where being introduced more than a few people complained that sometimes a person will die in a car accident because of the seat belt. Saner heads prevailed because the overall statistics showed much fewer deaths and injuries occur when using seat belts vs not using seat belts. To me insisting on a 0% failure rate for a smart gun is very reminiscent of the mandatory seat belt arguments. Sure... sometimes a gun will fail and the owner end up injured/dead and that's pretty awful. However, if the overall the number of deaths and injuries has been reduced then those tragedies will have been "worth it". It is irrational to insist on a 0% failure rate. It is also probably irrational to insist on the same failure rate as existing guns. The correct measure is the deaths/injury rate. Unfortunately the US doesn't seem to want to tackle the problem of gun deaths/injuries in any sort of scientific manner. There needs to be accurate and reliable data on gun ownership, gun usage (scared someone off), gun deaths, gun injuries. Solid data is the foundation of good policy... and preventing the gathering of good data is pretty telling. And far too many vested interests are more than willing to mislead people. Specifically, the NRA's constant "confiscate our guns" rhetoric i pretty unconscionable... but folks seem to blithely accept this sort of misrepresentation.

ctdonath 11y ago
Such calls for sensible data analysis followed immediately by wanton bashing of the NRA and gun owners is making it very difficult to have a sensible discussion on the subject in this country.
- rbobby 11y ago
  I'm not sure I'd call what I said "wanton bashing". The NRA does attempt to mislead folks on a regular basis... this is well documented.
  - hga 11y ago
    [citation needed] As for your specific claim about confiscation, how about this tag I was reminded of on a blog that's in my early morning rotation: http://blog.joehuffman.org/category/gun-rights/no-one-wants-to-take-your-guns/ http://blog.joehuffman.org/category/gun-rights/no-one-wants-... Or Senator Diane Feinstein, who represents a lot of HN readers), telling "Mr. and Mrs. America turn 'em all in" in a 60 Minutes interview. And let me assure that, using registration lists, guns have been confiscated in the US, e.g. SKSs in California after the government decided they were "assault weapons" after all (OK, you were allowed to move them out of state, but...).
    - ctdonath 11y ago
      NY regularly sends police to the homes of the recently deceased to take their guns, denying heirs ownership thereof.
      - hga 11y ago
        I would also expect that of other states where mere gun ownership is an explicitly granted by the state privilege to particular individuals, e.g. Illinois, Massachusetts, and New Jersey off the top of my head. And California has created a unit to do the same to people they think are prohibited. Most recent horror story was about a nurse who'd voluntarily checked herself into a mental ward because of a medication screwup (i.e. it was self-limiting) and her husband's guns were confiscated: http://bearingarms.com/california-returns-confiscated-guns-to-husband-following-wifes-voluntary-mental-health-visit/ http://bearingarms.com/california-returns-confiscated-guns-t... I'm not even sure in Crazy California a voluntary admission is a disbarring event, it isn't Federally or of any state I'm aware of, as this case shows it shouldn't be. And note medication screwups/unwanted mental side effects happen all the time, a former SO got frank suicidal ideation when switched to a standard normally well tolerated anti-depressant (she just stopped taking the drug and was careful while it worked its way out of her system). And many drugs can cause mania, as I can personally attest (hypomania in my case, and my "you're impaired" flag kept me from doing anything stupid including spending money needlessly (well, beyond buying a power supply as a kit when they're so cheap and easy in the form of wall-warts) until the problem was realized). Many that are not normally psychoactive, I've read systemic steroids like prednisone often do this.

by rbobby 11y ago

ctdonath 11y ago

Such calls for sensible data analysis followed immediately by wanton bashing of the NRA and gun owners is making it very difficult to have a sensible discussion on the subject in this country.

rbobby 11y ago
I'm not sure I'd call what I said "wanton bashing". The NRA does attempt to mislead folks on a regular basis... this is well documented.
- hga 11y ago
  [citation needed] As for your specific claim about confiscation, how about this tag I was reminded of on a blog that's in my early morning rotation: http://blog.joehuffman.org/category/gun-rights/no-one-wants-to-take-your-guns/ http://blog.joehuffman.org/category/gun-rights/no-one-wants-... Or Senator Diane Feinstein, who represents a lot of HN readers), telling "Mr. and Mrs. America turn 'em all in" in a 60 Minutes interview. And let me assure that, using registration lists, guns have been confiscated in the US, e.g. SKSs in California after the government decided they were "assault weapons" after all (OK, you were allowed to move them out of state, but...).
  - ctdonath 11y ago
    NY regularly sends police to the homes of the recently deceased to take their guns, denying heirs ownership thereof.
    - hga 11y ago
      I would also expect that of other states where mere gun ownership is an explicitly granted by the state privilege to particular individuals, e.g. Illinois, Massachusetts, and New Jersey off the top of my head. And California has created a unit to do the same to people they think are prohibited. Most recent horror story was about a nurse who'd voluntarily checked herself into a mental ward because of a medication screwup (i.e. it was self-limiting) and her husband's guns were confiscated: http://bearingarms.com/california-returns-confiscated-guns-to-husband-following-wifes-voluntary-mental-health-visit/ http://bearingarms.com/california-returns-confiscated-guns-t... I'm not even sure in Crazy California a voluntary admission is a disbarring event, it isn't Federally or of any state I'm aware of, as this case shows it shouldn't be. And note medication screwups/unwanted mental side effects happen all the time, a former SO got frank suicidal ideation when switched to a standard normally well tolerated anti-depressant (she just stopped taking the drug and was careful while it worked its way out of her system). And many drugs can cause mania, as I can personally attest (hypomania in my case, and my "you're impaired" flag kept me from doing anything stupid including spending money needlessly (well, beyond buying a power supply as a kit when they're so cheap and easy in the form of wall-warts) until the problem was realized). Many that are not normally psychoactive, I've read systemic steroids like prednisone often do this.