4 ms·

A lot of zoning restrictions were an attempt to circumvent anti-segretation laws for schools and housing through policies such as redlining.

unclebucknasty 11y ago
Bingo. A lot of the configuration is rooted in our racial history. Even sans zoning, black people have chased white people to the suburbs, back downtown again, and basically all over the map. You can't understand American city structure without the context of race relations here.
- michaelbuddy 11y ago
  You also can't say its all about race either because that would be trying to deliberately mislead.
  - unclebucknasty 11y ago
    Hence the phrase "a lot" vs. "all about".
- srtjstjsj 11y ago
  "chased" is a strange choice of words here.
  - unclebucknasty 11y ago
    Not to be taken literally. A word chosen to parody the ridiculousness of the overall dynamic. Hoping to evoke a Keystone Cops-on-a-map style mental image.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
  That's an "interesting" phrasing, but I find it less convincing than the usual "white flight" interpretation.
  - unclebucknasty 11y ago
    Flip sides of the same coin. Didn't mean the phrasing literally, as much as in parody. That said, there is an element of upwardly mobile African Americans seeking opportunities for their children. While they are not explicitly "chasing white people", this search frequently lands them in the same suburban locales.
michaelbuddy 11y ago
You're ignoring the lions share of zoning which is really about safety and conforming to standards. People like the money they spend to mean stability. And that means nice neighborhoods of houses don't want certain businesses because of trucks, unfamiliar traffic which equal danger to pedestrians. Some don't care about lawns or flags or color as much but it turns out the most insufferable people end up being drawn to the hoa boards.
- Throwaway23412 11y ago
  What's interesting is that the word "safe" doesn't show up once in the "Zoning" Wikipedia article. However, words like "business interests", "income segregation", and "racial segregation" seem to show up quite a bit. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning#Functional_zoning_-_categories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning#Functional_zoning_-_cat... - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning#Criticism_of_zoning_laws_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning#Criticism_of_zoning_law...
  - PhantomGremlin 11y ago
    the word "safe" doesn't show up once in the "Zoning" Wikipedia article Then that Wikipedia article needs to be amended. Look at an example from the real world. This is happening right now, in Portland Oregon. http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/two-portland-glass-companies-lack-pollution-controls-on-their-chimneys/Content?oid=17577339 http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/two-portland-glass-c... The problem is that glass factories are "adjacent to a 100-child daycare facility, two public schools (Cleveland High School and Winterhaven K-8), and a city park." These factories have been emitting metals such as cadmium and arsenic into the air. As you can imagine, this being Portland, everyone is quite upset. And rightly so. You can argue about the quantities of emission that any given plant should be allowed. But you can't argue that, for any given emission level, society as a whole is much better off if these factories aren't adjacent to daycare facilities and schools. Keeping schools and factories separated is a very legitimate "safety" goal of zoning.
    - ajmurmann 11y ago

unclebucknasty 11y ago

Bingo. A lot of the configuration is rooted in our racial history. Even sans zoning, black people have chased white people to the suburbs, back downtown again, and basically all over the map. You can't understand American city structure without the context of race relations here.

michaelbuddy 11y ago
You also can't say its all about race either because that would be trying to deliberately mislead.
- unclebucknasty 11y ago
  Hence the phrase "a lot" vs. "all about".
srtjstjsj 11y ago
"chased" is a strange choice of words here.
- unclebucknasty 11y ago
  Not to be taken literally. A word chosen to parody the ridiculousness of the overall dynamic. Hoping to evoke a Keystone Cops-on-a-map style mental image.
GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
That's an "interesting" phrasing, but I find it less convincing than the usual "white flight" interpretation.
- unclebucknasty 11y ago
  Flip sides of the same coin. Didn't mean the phrasing literally, as much as in parody. That said, there is an element of upwardly mobile African Americans seeking opportunities for their children. While they are not explicitly "chasing white people", this search frequently lands them in the same suburban locales.

michaelbuddy 11y ago

You're ignoring the lions share of zoning which is really about safety and conforming to standards. People like the money they spend to mean stability. And that means nice neighborhoods of houses don't want certain businesses because of trucks, unfamiliar traffic which equal danger to pedestrians. Some don't care about lawns or flags or color as much but it turns out the most insufferable people end up being drawn to the hoa boards.

Throwaway23412 11y ago
What's interesting is that the word "safe" doesn't show up once in the "Zoning" Wikipedia article. However, words like "business interests", "income segregation", and "racial segregation" seem to show up quite a bit. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning#Functional_zoning_-_categories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning#Functional_zoning_-_cat... - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning#Criticism_of_zoning_laws_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning#Criticism_of_zoning_law...
- PhantomGremlin 11y ago
  the word "safe" doesn't show up once in the "Zoning" Wikipedia article Then that Wikipedia article needs to be amended. Look at an example from the real world. This is happening right now, in Portland Oregon. http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/two-portland-glass-companies-lack-pollution-controls-on-their-chimneys/Content?oid=17577339 http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/two-portland-glass-c... The problem is that glass factories are "adjacent to a 100-child daycare facility, two public schools (Cleveland High School and Winterhaven K-8), and a city park." These factories have been emitting metals such as cadmium and arsenic into the air. As you can imagine, this being Portland, everyone is quite upset. And rightly so. You can argue about the quantities of emission that any given plant should be allowed. But you can't argue that, for any given emission level, society as a whole is much better off if these factories aren't adjacent to daycare facilities and schools. Keeping schools and factories separated is a very legitimate "safety" goal of zoning.
  - ajmurmann 11y ago