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This is honestly true. I take quite a few Coursera courses and I have had a score of '100' in all of them. And this is almost exclusively because even if I fai

by Zyst 11y ago

This is honestly true. I take quite a few Coursera courses and I have had a score of '100' in all of them. And this is almost exclusively because even if I fail I can just see which question I failed, go back to the lecture, study that section again, and try again until I get the 100.

HillRat 11y ago
On the other hand, what you're saying is that the tests showed you what areas you were weak in, and prompted you to go back and study until your knowledge improved in those areas. Put that way, it sounds more like a feature than a bug, no?
- munin 11y ago
  You don't need to do that, though. There are only N choices per question, so when you get it wrong you just go back and pick another one. When you see that you got it wrong, you go back and pick another one. Eventually, you'll know the right answer. You don't actually need to watch the videos to do this, and indeed, some students just go to the test and brute force their way through the test to get 100%.
  - ghaff 11y ago
    I guess my reaction to that is "So what?" So long as the grade has minimal real world meaning, why should I care that someone is "cheating" to bulk up their directory of Coursera PDF certificates? I agree that gaming tests is something that Coursera should presumably care about because their business model presumably depends on certificates meaning something in terms of people getting jobs etc. someday. But, as things currently stand, it's hard for me to get excited about people fooling themselves to rack up virtual MOOC karma.
    - munin 11y ago
      If the grade has no real world meaning, then why pay for it? That was the OPs question.
      - ghaff 11y ago
        Some of this turned into a broader discussion. But, to the OP's question, no--I don't think there's value in paying beyond edge cases (e.g. proof of continuing professional education) and any personal gamification benefits.
  - ipsin 11y ago
    Yeah, if you can actually pass an entire course as a non-comprehending algorithm, it's not much of a "certification".
ghaff 11y ago
Of course, one might argue that, if you're using testing as a pedagogical technique as opposed to a certification mechanism, that's exactly how it ought to work.
- Jugurtha 11y ago
  Exactly. If we go from the assumption that the whole point of lectures and courses is to acquire knowledge, doesn't it make sense to make sure knowledge is indeed acquired. There's that saying that amateurs practice until they get it right and pros practice until they can't get it wrong. A perfect score in the current configuration tells you that the students didn't just persist through the course, they went back and filled the gaps and made sure they get it right even if they got it wrong at first.
  - tyre 11y ago
    But is that long-term knowledge? In college I took a class and, after the first session, realized the professor was utter shit[1]. I did not attend a single subsequent class or complete any reading/assignments. After cramming for the midterm for 10 hours, I earned an 80% and dropped the class to prove a point[2]. Could not tell you a single thing that was part of that class, but I got a lot of questions right. [1]: He was hired because the college wanted his wife, so they hired them both. Terrible hiring practice. [2]: Yes, I was a pain in the ass at that age.
    - Jugurtha 11y ago
      Preaching to the choir, tyre: I have a catastrophic college track record, 9 years instead of 5, almost expelled, extremely poor grades, missed exams, pissed off some teachers because I didn't think their course was worth the time (because I knew more about the subject than they did and they weren't okay with that even though I shut my mouth unless they said something wrong and I would suggest something correct very discreetly, privately, and as a question not even a statement, giving them the opportunity to take credit for the embedded answer. Yet they didn't like it).. Those very same teachers would entrust me with the class to answer questions or assist students when I was there, and then give me poor grades. It's hurting me right now because a recruiter would look at my grades and think I'm stupid, so you do have a point. I was looking at it from the personal quest to quench the thirst for knowledge, not how it looked from the outside.

by Zyst 11y ago

HillRat 11y ago

On the other hand, what you're saying is that the tests showed you what areas you were weak in, and prompted you to go back and study until your knowledge improved in those areas. Put that way, it sounds more like a feature than a bug, no?

munin 11y ago
You don't need to do that, though. There are only N choices per question, so when you get it wrong you just go back and pick another one. When you see that you got it wrong, you go back and pick another one. Eventually, you'll know the right answer. You don't actually need to watch the videos to do this, and indeed, some students just go to the test and brute force their way through the test to get 100%.
- ghaff 11y ago
  I guess my reaction to that is "So what?" So long as the grade has minimal real world meaning, why should I care that someone is "cheating" to bulk up their directory of Coursera PDF certificates? I agree that gaming tests is something that Coursera should presumably care about because their business model presumably depends on certificates meaning something in terms of people getting jobs etc. someday. But, as things currently stand, it's hard for me to get excited about people fooling themselves to rack up virtual MOOC karma.
  - munin 11y ago
    If the grade has no real world meaning, then why pay for it? That was the OPs question.
    - ghaff 11y ago
      Some of this turned into a broader discussion. But, to the OP's question, no--I don't think there's value in paying beyond edge cases (e.g. proof of continuing professional education) and any personal gamification benefits.
- ipsin 11y ago
  Yeah, if you can actually pass an entire course as a non-comprehending algorithm, it's not much of a "certification".

ghaff 11y ago

Of course, one might argue that, if you're using testing as a pedagogical technique as opposed to a certification mechanism, that's exactly how it ought to work.

Jugurtha 11y ago
Exactly. If we go from the assumption that the whole point of lectures and courses is to acquire knowledge, doesn't it make sense to make sure knowledge is indeed acquired. There's that saying that amateurs practice until they get it right and pros practice until they can't get it wrong. A perfect score in the current configuration tells you that the students didn't just persist through the course, they went back and filled the gaps and made sure they get it right even if they got it wrong at first.
- tyre 11y ago
  But is that long-term knowledge? In college I took a class and, after the first session, realized the professor was utter shit[1]. I did not attend a single subsequent class or complete any reading/assignments. After cramming for the midterm for 10 hours, I earned an 80% and dropped the class to prove a point[2]. Could not tell you a single thing that was part of that class, but I got a lot of questions right. [1]: He was hired because the college wanted his wife, so they hired them both. Terrible hiring practice. [2]: Yes, I was a pain in the ass at that age.
  - Jugurtha 11y ago
    Preaching to the choir, tyre: I have a catastrophic college track record, 9 years instead of 5, almost expelled, extremely poor grades, missed exams, pissed off some teachers because I didn't think their course was worth the time (because I knew more about the subject than they did and they weren't okay with that even though I shut my mouth unless they said something wrong and I would suggest something correct very discreetly, privately, and as a question not even a statement, giving them the opportunity to take credit for the embedded answer. Yet they didn't like it).. Those very same teachers would entrust me with the class to answer questions or assist students when I was there, and then give me poor grades. It's hurting me right now because a recruiter would look at my grades and think I'm stupid, so you do have a point. I was looking at it from the personal quest to quench the thirst for knowledge, not how it looked from the outside.